Neighbour fence dispute

LEW100

I was replacing the rear garden fence which I own with a feather edge fence built by a local groundworker totally at my expense   I talked to my neighbours and explained that the groundworker has said that he could not build it with the rails on my side as my neighbours had a shed right next to the boundary. They got really nasty and demanded that the fence was erected with the nice side their side but refused to move the shed. The groundworker wanted to try to keep the peace and said he could make up a panel and slide it in which he has done. I feel that I have gone the extra mile but they are now saying that the fence we agreed on and built for the front garden too tall and they have canvassed other neighbours to complain to the council. All this nastiness against me as one person against 2 of them has upset me and we are now no longer on speaking terms. I wonder how I can maintain the new fence at the rear with his shed there. Can I ask the council to ask him to move it - it’s about 12 ft long by 6 ft deep. Also can I ask him not to have his recycling boxes pushed right up against my new fence at the front. Thanks

ThisIsWeird

Hi Lew.

I think it's time to take a step back, and try not to let this escalate, for your own peace of mind. It's a shame that other neighbours have got involved, and really a bit strange too - any idea why they would?

First, the facts about fencing.

1) You replaced this back fence because it's yours? You 'own' it? By that, I presume it means that it sits on your side of the boundary line? In which case, the 'legalities' are that it's 100% your fence, to do with as you choose - which includes not actually having a fence there at all if you don't want to (unless you need to keep animals and children in, or your deeds state that you 'must'). 

2) Yes, there is/was a 'convention' that folk with responsibility for a fence should give their neighbour the 'nice' side, but no-one can insist on this. If you simply do not want to give a neighbour the 'nice' side, then no-one can force you to. Of course, you do run the risk of cheesing off the neighb in question if you don't

3) You had a 'valid' reason for initially not having the nice side facing the neighbs - their shed prevented this? But, your fencer found a way around this by making up this separate panel that could be slid into place? So, are you telling us that your neighbour does now have the nice side? And they are still complaining? About what - just the height?

4) The max permitted height of a fence between properties in the UK is, I understand, 2m, which is around 6'6" (often lower if it borders a roadway, for example). All fencers know this, and would be careful not to exceed this max. So, how tall is your new fence? If taller than this, then why?!

5) What business is this fence height of the other neighbours? Has the council actually been informed? Have they come out? What did they say about the height?

To answer your general Qs, no, I cannot see any way you can make them move their shed. If you really need to maintain this part of your fence, then you may just need to spray clear preservative down that back side from above (ideally when your neighbour is out...)

Can you prevent them from leaving their recycling boxes tight against your shed? In theory, yes, but in practice this would be very difficult, and you'd need to demonstrate that they are actually causing damage to your fence. Personally, I wouldn't go there.

This sounds like a deeply unpleasant situation, and I cannot see any easy way out of it. All I can suggest is to be the better person, be super-reasonable and 'pleasant' in any interaction - through gritted teeth if needed - and to not do anything to provoke these tedious folk. Your fence is in place, it's bound to last a good 15+ years, so just enjoy it. Give the matter time to defuse. Ignore it as best you can.

Should anyone mention it - your immediate or other neighbours, for example - do not criticise the people involved, but just explain the facts.

twopenny

After the extreamly sensible answer of TW I'd be tempted, probably would, ask a friend to dress up with suit and clipboard, be smiley and laugh together as he looks at the fences and particularly the bins good and hard then leave with a cheery smile and wave between you.

If asked after or during say sorry it's not your place to inform them.

This would give them some concern, lots to discuss and keep them busy.

I bet your other neighbours are highly embarrassed about this anyway and won't want to get involved.

Section62

ThisIsWeird said:

4) The max permitted height of a fence between properties in the UK is, I understand, 2m, which is around 6'6" (often lower if it borders a roadway, for example).

Yes and no.

There is no maximum permitted height as such.  The two metre figure comes from the permitted development rules - i.e. the maximum* allowed without applying for planning consent.  If someone wants a higher fence they can apply for planning consent (but might not get it). Ditto if the property doesn't have the permitted development rights.

*A lower maximum of 1m applies in the case of fences 'adjacent' to a 'highway used by vehicles'. The meaning of those terms is open to some interpretation by the local planning authority. But it is this rule that might catch the OP out if their front fence is higher than 1m and wasn't replacing a fence/wall of the same height (or higher).

ThisIsWeird said:

All fencers know this, and would be careful not to exceed this max. So, how tall is your new fence? If taller than this, then why?!

I'd love to agree with you, but the reality is there are a lot of people calling themselves fencers or groundworks contractors who don't understand the rules (fully) and may well be working to their own variation of them.

Ultimately it is the householder's responsibility to comply with planning law, and so many contractors - even the reputable ones - won't have too much of a moral objection of erecting whatever fence the client is paying for.  Claiming the fencing co should know the rules and not install a higher fence probably won't get you very far if planning enforcement ask for a height reduction.

TELLIT01

There are no rules or laws which say that the neighbour needs to be given the 'good side of the fence.  My neighbour has the 'good' side of the fence he paid for towards him, and I have the good side of the fence I paid for towards me.

Section62

TELLIT01 said:

There are no rules or laws which say that the neighbour needs to be given the 'good side of the fence.  My neighbour has the 'good' side of the fence he paid for towards him, and I have the good side of the fence I paid for towards me.

There could be a covenant or planning condition specifying the appearance on one side or the other.  My parent's neighbours are supposed to have the posts on their side of the fence (...and the posts have to be concrete etc)

400ixl

No laws that say you have to give the neighbour the good side.

Other option is to go with concrete posts and barge boards and just drop in panels which don't have such obvious good and bad sides.

FreeBear

Concrete posts & gravel boards are always a good idea if you want a fence to last. Wooden posts set in to the ground might last 5-10 years before they rot at the base.

TELLIT01

Section62 said:

TELLIT01 said:

There are no rules or laws which say that the neighbour needs to be given the 'good side of the fence.  My neighbour has the 'good' side of the fence he paid for towards him, and I have the good side of the fence I paid for towards me.

There could be a covenant or planning condition specifying the appearance on one side or the other.  My parent's neighbours are supposed to have the posts on their side of the fence (...and the posts have to be concrete etc)

'Could be' but highly unlikely.  All that would be in most deeds, if anything, is something to the effect that the property owner is responsible for ensuring the boundary is clearly marked.  That can be done with a single strand of wire and angle iron posts.

LEW100

Thank you for all your contributions. The fence is up, they have had their way and I will be ignoring them and living my own life. The fence they say they have received complaints about is a single panel between us at the front of our properties which replaced a leaning trellis panel covered with Ivy which was about 8ft. tall. So technically at 2m it is too tall because it is adjacent to a highway. I will leave it until / if I get a letter from the council and then I will ask them to pay a visit where I can get their opinion on the shed. I think that any neighbours who have complained are friends of my neighbours and were obviously canvassed by him to do so. Most genuine complainants would have come directly to me. If the council insist I will lower the front fence panel to 1m and next door will lose their privacy. I will leave their recycling boxes touching my fence as long as they don’t damage it. I will be the ‘better person’