Party Wall work

jnorth55

My neighbour is planning to have some significant building work done that requires a party wall agreement, however they are using a builder that is not registered with any trade organisation & appears not to have the different forms of insurance that are either legally required or would protect neighbours (& the person having the work done) should anything happen. 

Does anyone have experience of this & has objected to a Party Wall agreement on a similar basis? 

tasticz

what is the work?

Have they served party wall notice? They should have done this and you have the right to appoint your own surveyor to see your interest as their cost (relationships may break down!!!)

I am surprised no ambulance chaser surveyor has sent you letter yet explaining things that could go wrong…

If you appoint a surveyor, they should check all this as part of the paperwork

Doozergirl

You can't 'object' to a party wall notice.  The neighbour is exercising their right to build. You can hire surveyors to ensure the intended build routes are acceptable, but you've got no control over who builds it. Going through the process with surveyors may expose the builders if they're genuinely no good as there are often requests for method statements etc.  

Sadly, anyone can call themselves a builder in this country.   The only trade organisation that carries out in depth checks and carries out independent inspections on members' sites is the Federation of Master Builders.   

www.fmb.org.uk. I think it's a no-brainer to use a member when you know that they've willingly put themselves up for scrutiny. 

Insurance is a difficult one too, there's no legal obligation to have contract works cover or a warranty in place either! 

ThisIsWeird

Eek, Doozergirl - that's scary.
If the OP insisted on a PWA, would part of the surveyor's remit be to check such details as liability insurance, as Tasticz suggests?
If the builder doesn't have this cover, who would be liable - who would sort out - damage caused to the OP's property?

BarelySentientAI

ThisIsWeird said:

If the builder doesn't have this cover, who would be liable - who would sort out - damage caused to the OP's property?

Same as it would be if they did have insurance.  The OP's buildings insurer - who (In the uninsured case) would then pursue the builder for recovery of their outlay rather than the builder's insurer.

Insurance is generally there to protect the policyholder, nobody else.

Doozergirl

ThisIsWeird said:

Eek, Doozergirl - that's scary.
If the OP insisted on a PWA, would part of the surveyor's remit be to check such details as liability insurance, as Tasticz suggests?
If the builder doesn't have this cover, who would be liable - who would sort out - damage caused to the OP's property?

There's no onus on party wall surveyors to check insurances, because there's no onus to provide one.  

As I've said before, party wall surveyors don't look after individual interests.  

Who is liable?  If you're talking about damage caused by building work, then it's one of three - contractor or designer if either were wrong, or the homeowner if it was unforeseeable or inevitable.  

It's every building site in this country though, isn't it?  Not just the OP's house.  Other than the FMB every year on the PL front, I've only ever been asked to provide proof of insurance to a client once.  

jnorth55

Doozergirl said:

You can't 'object' to a party wall notice.  The neighbour is exercising their right to build. You can hire surveyors to ensure the intended build routes are acceptable, but you've got no control over who builds it. Going through the process with surveyors may expose the builders if they're genuinely no good as there are often requests for method statements etc.  

Sadly, anyone can call themselves a builder in this country.   The only trade organisation that carries out in depth checks and carries out independent inspections on members' sites is the Federation of Master Builders.   

www.fmb.org.uk. I think it's a no-brainer to use a member when you know that they've willingly put themselves up for scrutiny. 

Insurance is a difficult one too, there's no legal obligation to have contract works cover or a warranty in place either! 

I would, politely, disagree with some of this. Any neighbour can object to a party wall notice & that then places it in dispute, at which point the other side have to appoint a surveyor. 

There are legal requirements in terms of certain bits of insurance. Some are optional others are required. 

My issue here is that the person who wants to have the work done seems to have not done any research on the builder & doesn't seem to have considered what could happen if there are issues, & those could be due to poor workmanship or accidental damage. 

I have asked them why they aren't using a FMB registered builder but they seem to think as long as they have their own insurance that would cover any issues. Unfortunately I know, due to a long court case some years ago, that insurance companies don't cover such things as standard as they expect the person to have checked the builders insurance, citing 'due diligence'. Likewise with any neighbour. It's one of the reasons for a party wall notice, to give neighbours chance to carry out their own due diligence.

ThisIsWeird

Just as you should inform your own insurance co if you are having work done on your own home, should you inform your own insurance co if your neighb is going to do 'party' work like this? 
Jnorth, do you have LegProt in your policy?

jnorth55

ThisIsWeird said:

Just as you should inform your own insurance co if you are having work done on your own home, should you inform your own insurance co if your neighb is going to do 'party' work like this? 
Jnorth, do you have LegProt in your policy?

I do have legal cover but, as far as I know, it won't assist in this kind of situation as the PWN is a chance to do due diligence. Further, if the builder doesn't have the various bits of insurance pursuing them would mean a long process & the risk of them not having the funds anyway. 

Doozergirl

What is the work? How are you affected? 

jnorth55

Doozergirl said:

What is the work? How are you affected? 

Roof replacement. The builder has insurance but not contract works insurance or anything that would back up a warranty.