Landlord not following legal notice?

AJM1984

pinkshoes said:

AJM1984 said:

I can't find anything about reimbursement if my tenancy is forcefully ended before a full month has occurred either. If I pay a full month on June 15th as normal but she wants me out on July 1st, how do I know I'll get some money back... Oh goodness, this feels unnecessarily complicated.

Your tenancy cannot be forcefully ended.

The LL needs to issue a S21 eviction notice, and even then you don't have to move out if you don't have anywhere to go.

I'd perhaps see if you can play this to your advantage and write to your LL:

"Dear LL. Thank you for letting me know that you have accepted an offer on the property. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to move out at the moment, as the house I'm purchasing is ongoing, and will not be completed with the 7 weeks that you would like me to move out by. I understand that should you issue an S21, you can request that I move out in 2 calendar months time (so 10th July if S21 is received tomorrow) but again if am not in a position to move out, I will not be able to do this. However, as I appreciate that you have a deadline, then if you are willing to return my deposit in full along with an additional £2000 to cover the cost of me having to move twice, I will vacate the property by your requested date and find alternative temporary accommodation."

You might want to delay sending that to buy more time until an S21 would expire. 

This sounds appealing to try but I highly doubt she'd accept. I've also been advised by CA that I can't mention a Section 21 to the LL as it could be classed as making myself intentionally homeless. We're not in receipt of any benefits or anything like that so, unfortunately, we don't qualify for any clear help or support so panic buying a house is our only option because rental costs have gone through the roof in this area; where we're stuck because of work commitments. What a time to be alive lol

RHemmings

AJM1984 said:

RHemmings said:

AJM1984 said:

My Landlord has decided to sell up this year. That's completely understandable and I've been very accommodating with viewings, EA visits etc. I wish it wasn't happening, but here we are.... I'm in the process of trying to buy a house (very rushed, I might add) but so far it's been going on for nearly 3 months; a lot of hiccups on the seller's behalf and, while the end was in sight, I'm pretty sure it's all about to fall through next week. Much to my dismay and rising blood pressure.

My Landlord has suddenly announced that an offer has been accepted on the house I'm in now and she wants me out on the 1st of July. This doesn't sound right. All I've had is a basic WhatsApp message saying "I'll send you the paperwork soon. But you cant be out later than July 1st. Seven weeks is generous. " - I'm on a periodic/monthly AST, fixed term ended in 2012.

LOL at the bolded bit. The law takes an entirely different view. 

pramsay13 said:

As above a landlord can't force you to move, so you can dictate the timescales. 
If you want you can sit tight and continue paying rent until you are ready to move, or until the landlord serves the correct notice and gets a court order to evict you. 
Alternatively you could ask for some money that would allow you to move early, maybe to another rental for a few months until your own house is ready. 

Deffo try this. You can tell your landlord the legal situation, and then suggest that they pay for your additional costs if they want you to leave earlier than legally required. You might have a good negotiating position if the LL has signed a contract giving vacant possession before they are legally able to obtain that. But, this far off it's likely that contracts have not been exchanged. 

I might also consider changing the locks in case the LL is either ignorant of, or prepared to ignore, the law. 

She only accepted an offer 6 days ago and the house is still online and not listed as STC or Under Offer. She wants it gone before her mortgage rates go up at the end of the year. She does also have a habit of entering the garden whenever she likes, it's entirely enclosed but she squeezes through a gap at the back of a fence when we're away, so I don't know if her ignorance may extend to her entering the house.

I was thinking of what has happened in another current thread here (and has happened in other situations). Where the landlord has decided to take matters into their own hands and illegally evict their tenant. This is harder, but far from impossible, if the landlord doesn't have working keys for the property. It can be inflammatory to change the locks, but the LL shouldn't find out unless they try to enter illegally in any case. 

Shelldean

AJM1984 said:

pinkshoes said:

AJM1984 said:

I can't find anything about reimbursement if my tenancy is forcefully ended before a full month has occurred either. If I pay a full month on June 15th as normal but she wants me out on July 1st, how do I know I'll get some money back... Oh goodness, this feels unnecessarily complicated.

Your tenancy cannot be forcefully ended.

The LL needs to issue a S21 eviction notice, and even then you don't have to move out if you don't have anywhere to go.

I'd perhaps see if you can play this to your advantage and write to your LL:

"Dear LL. Thank you for letting me know that you have accepted an offer on the property. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to move out at the moment, as the house I'm purchasing is ongoing, and will not be completed with the 7 weeks that you would like me to move out by. I understand that should you issue an S21, you can request that I move out in 2 calendar months time (so 10th July if S21 is received tomorrow) but again if am not in a position to move out, I will not be able to do this. However, as I appreciate that you have a deadline, then if you are willing to return my deposit in full along with an additional £2000 to cover the cost of me having to move twice, I will vacate the property by your requested date and find alternative temporary accommodation."

You might want to delay sending that to buy more time until an S21 would expire. 

This sounds appealing to try but I highly doubt she'd accept. I've also been advised by CA that I can't mention a Section 21 to the LL as it could be classed as making myself intentionally homeless. We're not in receipt of any benefits or anything like that so, unfortunately, we don't qualify for any clear help or support so panic buying a house is our only option because rental costs have gone through the roof in this area; where we're stuck because of work commitments. What a time to be alive lol

You highly doubt she'll accept it??
It's following the legal requirements to serve a S21 and give 2 months notice.
If she wants you gone sooner then she'll have to sweeten you up somehow.
Otherwise you'll follow the law!
So her wish for you to be gone by 1july simply won't happen 

Voyager2002

AJM1984 said:

Hey all,

I'm really sorry to be a bother but I'm very much struggling at the moment and I'm looking to anywhere I can for support and advice.

My Landlord has decided to sell up this year. That's completely understandable and I've been very accommodating with viewings, EA visits etc. I wish it wasn't happening, but here we are.... I'm in the process of trying to buy a house (very rushed, I might add) but so far it's been going on for nearly 3 months; a lot of hiccups on the seller's behalf and, while the end was in sight, I'm pretty sure it's all about to fall through next week. Much to my dismay and rising blood pressure.

My Landlord has suddenly announced that an offer has been accepted on the house I'm in now and she wants me out on the 1st of July. This doesn't sound right. All I've had is a basic WhatsApp message saying "I'll send you the paperwork soon. But you cant be out later than July 1st. Seven weeks is generous. " - I'm on a periodic/monthly AST, fixed term ended in 2012. 
My monthly term also doesn't run from the 1st of the month to the end of. I moved in mid month, so my rent is paid mid month in advance. Example: Paid on the 15th, term ends on the 14th. I'm reading things about 'Break Clauses' but the legalese is beyond my comprehension. Sadly. 

Can she really push me out by the 1st of July? That's not enough time for me to restart the house buying process. I'm starting to feel really unwell with all this. 

Sorry if I'm in the wrong section... Thank you for reading. 

Let us start with what the law says...

The landlord MUST give you notice of at least two calendar months, and that notice must begin on a specific date (normally your rent date). So if your next rent is due on 15 May, your notice expires on 15 July. And 'giving notice' means serving the proper papers, not a Whatsapp message.

So if you are served the correct notice, and at the end of the notice period you still have nowhere to go, you can stay in your home and continue to pay rent. If the landlord attempts to make you leave it is a criminal offence. In that situation the landlord needs to make an appointment for a court hearing, and only the court can bring the tenancy to an end.

If it does get to court (unlikely because you are working hard to buy a house, and there is a long waiting list for court appointments) there are many technical reasons why the landlord's case might be thrown out, and so he would have to apply for another appointment... Potentially this could go on for months and months.

propertyrental

Voyager2002 said:

AJM1984 said:

Hey all,

I'm really sorry to be a bother but I'm very much struggling at the moment and I'm looking to anywhere I can for support and advice.

My Landlord has decided to sell up this year. That's completely understandable and I've been very accommodating with viewings, EA visits etc. I wish it wasn't happening, but here we are.... I'm in the process of trying to buy a house (very rushed, I might add) but so far it's been going on for nearly 3 months; a lot of hiccups on the seller's behalf and, while the end was in sight, I'm pretty sure it's all about to fall through next week. Much to my dismay and rising blood pressure.

My Landlord has suddenly announced that an offer has been accepted on the house I'm in now and she wants me out on the 1st of July. This doesn't sound right. All I've had is a basic WhatsApp message saying "I'll send you the paperwork soon. But you cant be out later than July 1st. Seven weeks is generous. " - I'm on a periodic/monthly AST, fixed term ended in 2012. 
My monthly term also doesn't run from the 1st of the month to the end of. I moved in mid month, so my rent is paid mid month in advance. Example: Paid on the 15th, term ends on the 14th. I'm reading things about 'Break Clauses' but the legalese is beyond my comprehension. Sadly. 

Can she really push me out by the 1st of July? That's not enough time for me to restart the house buying process. I'm starting to feel really unwell with all this. 

Sorry if I'm in the wrong section... Thank you for reading. 

Let us start with what the law says...

The landlord MUST give you notice of at least two calendar months, 

Yes

and that notice must begin on a specific date (normally your rent date). 

NO! It can be served on any date, but the expiry date given on the S21 must be at least 2 calender months later.

So if your next rent is due on 15 May, your notice expires on 15 July. No - that would be 2 months + 1 day. And it 'expires' on the date given in the S21 Notice, which could be ANY date provided it is 2 calender months or more from the date of service

And 'giving notice' means serving the proper papers, not a Whatsapp message. Yes

Don't be confused. 'Giving notice' to end the tenancy can only be done by the tenant. The LL can only serve a S21 giving notice that after 2 months he may (or may not) apply to a court
So if you are served the correct notice, and at the end of the notice period you still have nowhere to go, you can stay in your home and continue to pay rent. Yes

Since the tenancy is now periodic (monthly rolling) the 'Break Clause' is irrelevant. That would only apply during the fixed term.

You cannot be 'pushed out' by the LL on ANY date. Only a court can 'push you out'. Otherwise, you can negotiate a tenancy end date (which must be agreed by both of you), or you can serve your own notice.

A recent change in the law means that if you have over-paid rent as a result of a S21, the LL must return the over paid rent on a daily pro rata basis.

Deregulation Act 2015  S40

AJM1984

Thank you, everyone. I appreciate you taking the time to lay all the information out for me as clearly as possible.

Ignoring a Break Clause as irrelevant because it's no longer during a fixed term makes the contract much easier to understand. I can see now, thanks to your input, that it can also be a two calendar month notice via Section 21 from the LL but a fixed one month notice from myself adhering to rolling tenancy dates. 

So, even if paperwork arrives next week demanding July 1st as a leaving date, she really should be sweetening the pot. Especially as my only option would be to move my family 70 miles away and attempt to commute until finding out if my house purchase is viable. Failing that, I'd have until almost mid July if I forced her to stick to the two calendar month rule and longer if the notice is invalid.

Thank you all. I feel a bit better! I understand the timings and my rights more clearly. A little less pressured. 

theartfullodger

Almost.  

AT LEAST 2 months notice from  landlord  -  from service (not e.g. from when posted).  So could be longer.

AT LEAST 1 month by you, expiring on either last or first day of any tenancy period -  eg could be 3 months 17 days..

Most sensible landlords are prudent, flexible and wise.

  Sadly to be a landlord requires no prudence nor wisdom.

AJM1984

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to approach the LL to say the notice next week is invalid and when I should do that, please? (Assuming it's not giving us the full two months notice making it invalid by default.) I'm not even sure it'll be on a relevant form.

theartfullodger

Any notice or indeed even selling the place does not end tenancy nor compel tenant to leave.  Only a court & bailiffs can end tenancy for landlord.  (Thatcher's 1988 Housing Act says so.)

You could point it out or simply do nothing (at all) , wait until court writes to you about eviction hearing then point out invalidity to landlord and he'll probably double or more incentive to leave.  

Me, I'd want £10k to leave, but I'm a greedy landlord.

Best wishes to all 

jimbog

AJM1984 said:

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to approach the LL to say the notice next week is invalid and when I should do that, please? (Assuming it's not giving us the full two months notice making it invalid by default.) I'm not even sure it'll be on a relevant form.

Don't say anything until it is about to expire. That will mean a new one will need to be issued