Fistral Beach - Initial Parking 2 x PCN

frothycoffee201

Hi,

Received yesterday (08/05/2024)

The keeper has received two PCNs in the same day at Fistral Beach. It wasn't obvious that it was ANPR else they would have paid. You can drive straight through, no barriers. One has a rejected appeal, the other has been left. 

What are the options? Can initial parking be ignored or do they have a history of taking to court?

The fact that it's two in one day really is frustrating. Attached a photo of them.

Gr1pr

Its been a pay and display, or pay to park car park for over a decade, an infamous hotspot monitored by many successive parking companies and regularly features on here, its notorious 

The fact that its an ANPR car park doesn't change the fact that its a pay to park car park, its always been that way, no barriers is irrelevant. Non payment is very difficult to argue against , I would think that its highly likely that Initial would sue in court due to non payment 

The NTK PCNs appear to comply with POFA 2012

Coupon-mad

Fistral Beach is clearly pay and display and as @Gr1pr  rightly says, it has been for more than a decade.  I was there 5 or 6 years ago and - although I don't think it was Initial who infested it then - it was pretty clear it's not free.

Surely the driver/passenger didn't sit in the car on private land with P&D machines & signs and think they weren't "parked" and that they'd keep an eye out and pay the minimum fee if some chap with a high vis appeared?

That's not how car parks are operated now.  There's no need for a barrier.  Never assume it's free. Always look for cameras. Always pay a fair fee to park, or don't go in at all (park on a side street instead).

Having said that, you can ignore Initial.

But come back here to this thread if they break the habit of a lifetime and send you a court claim.  And obviously tell them if you move house but that's common sense advice (not parking specific).

frothycoffee201

Coupon-mad said:

Fistral Beach is clearly pay and display and as @Gr1pr  rightly says, it has been for more than a decade.  I was there 5 or 6 years ago and - although I don't think it was Initial who infested it then - it was pretty clear it's not free.

Surely the driver/passenger didn't sit in the car on private land with P&D machines & signs and think they weren't "parked" and that they'd keep an eye out and pay the minimum fee if some chap with a high vis appeared?

That's not how car parks are operated now.  There's no need for a barrier.  Never assume it's free. Always look for cameras. Always pay a fair fee to park, or don't go in at all (park on a side street instead).

Having said that, you can ignore Initial.

But come back here to this thread if they break the habit of a lifetime and send you a court claim.  And obviously tell them if you move house but that's common sense advice (not parking specific).

Yes, never been before. Live and learn I guess.

If it did get to court the keeper would have no defense, so take it that Initial do not go through court?

Do you think it would be possible to get one removed as it's both in the same day?

Coupon-mad

No just ignore them.

You don't have to have been to a particular car park before, to know that you must pay & display if you stop there.  You can't just park up in the car and not pay.  Almost all are ANPR. And Fistral is pretty clearly not free to park in.

frothycoffee201

Coupon-mad said:

No just ignore them.

You don't have to have been to a particular car park before, to know that you must pay & display if you stop there.  You can't just park up in the car and not pay.  Almost all are ANPR. And Fistral is pretty clearly not free to park in.

Thanks. Thinking to appeal the second PCN under the grounds that they are both in the same day? The first end time is 15:34, second entrance time is 18:16. Do you think this would be possible?

Gr1pr

I doubt it, its 2 separate incidents, hence 2 PCNs 

I suggest that you treat ALL car parks as hostile territory, be they free or pay, there are thousands of them without barriers or wardens, hospitals, pubs, clubs , supermarkets, housing estates, retail parks, doctors, restaurants, visitor attractions, NCP car parks, Train stations, airports, ports, etc , plus council ones etc 

Many have restrictions, many include payment or registering the VRM, or both, every one is a sprung trap in one way or another, many using cameras like ANPR cameras, sometimes CCTV, plus mobile wardens using handheld cameras etc , or a nosey neighbour like Norris Cole reporting the vehicle and getting a kickback

Each and every one of them is hoping that the driver breaches the parking contract in one way or another 

Avoidance is the best strategy, but if using one, always check the signs, Google the site, checking trip advisor, Facebook etc first, never assume that its free and unrestricted 

Bazarius

Coupon-mad said:

Fistral Beach is clearly pay and display and as @Gr1pr  rightly says, it has been for more than a decade.  I was there 5 or 6 years ago and - although I don't think it was Initial who infested it then - it was pretty clear it's not free.

Surely the driver/passenger didn't sit in the car on private land with P&D machines & signs and think they weren't "parked" and that they'd keep an eye out and pay the minimum fee if some chap with a high vis appeared?

That's not how car parks are operated now.  There's no need for a barrier.  Never assume it's free. Always look for cameras. Always pay a fair fee to park, or don't go in at all (park on a side street instead).

Having said that, you can ignore Initial.

But come back here to this thread if they break the habit of a lifetime and send you a court claim.  And obviously tell them if you move house but that's common sense advice (not parking specific).

I believe it was ParkingEye same car park as in  PE v Hotchin ? 

Coupon-mad

frothycoffee201 said:

Coupon-mad said:

No just ignore them.

You don't have to have been to a particular car park before, to know that you must pay & display if you stop there.  You can't just park up in the car and not pay.  Almost all are ANPR. And Fistral is pretty clearly not free to park in.

Thanks. Thinking to appeal the second PCN under the grounds that they are both in the same day? The first end time is 15:34, second entrance time is 18:16. Do you think this would be possible?

No.

Just ignore them.

Gr1pr

Its had a few, Parking Eye when PE lost in court a decade ago, driving round waiting for a space is not parking, still on parking pranksters website as a blog , Smart Parking have also been there, Initial Parking are now on there, nothing changes, still a notorious car park, but ALWAYS been pay and display for possibly 15 years or more ( pay to park, not free. )

LDast

The NtKs fail PoFA 9(2)(e)(i) in that they do not invite the keeper to pay the charge in any way, shape or form. Not that Initial or any other intellectually malnourished, ex-clamper, unregulated private parking company would care. However, as long as the drivers identity is never revealed, should Initial break a habit and issue a court claim, you have a very good defence the the keeper cannot be liable because of the PoFA failure.