CEL - LBA

Unkas

Hello all

Newbie - obvs

Ignorance was bliss with a couple of Parking Eye PCNs at my Local Aldi a while back but not on this occasion - date of incident 20/03/2023

Literally overnight these restrictions appeared at a local 'free' car park that I'd used from time to time, Costa had been there for a few years and everyone used this space, which must have been the reason they had this done. 

I received the LBA - Friday 3rd May - Dated 30th April
Have sent a stern but polite complaint on the Costa main website as per the FAQ so awaiting a reply before proceeding to the 30 day extension email to CEL. Which I'll be sending to - Legal3@ce-service.co.uk??

Just wanted to get the thread up and running in the meantime and a few posts under my belt

In my defence, I didn't even see the signs as I'd used this place before when no restrictions were in place so was just on auto pilot, could have been raining or parked next to a van or something, it was so long ago and it was an unremarkable day. 

I've only been back down on foot since to do a bit recce and from what I read in the BPA COP regarding signage - While I can't be certain if they erected temporary signage before it went live.  I do know is that it states -
19.3 You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle.

The signage only covers around 2/3 of the car park wherever there are posts, fences etc to affix them to, where I usually parked there's nothing to attach them to - so no immediate 'in your face' signs.  Just spitballing here mind you.  I'm sure someone will put me right.  I've taken a load of photos of the place anyway if the need arises to post them for perusal. 

I guess that's it for now - cheers. 

Gr1pr

You should definitely be looking at those signage requirements listed in the BPA CoP version 8 ( or 9 depending on when it happened. ) especially looking at the requirements when a new sites is being enforced , but none of that will matter at the LBC stage, so follow the LBC stage for now, plus plan A too

Unkas

Version 9 is dated Feb 24 so 8 should be the right one given the date of incident, and it was 8 I referenced.  But because of the infrequency that I used the car park, they may well have had temp signs up prior I can't be certain. But I could always ask the local Costa Manager for specifics.  And just to clarify, it was an overstay,  I was in there 2hrs or so and it's limited to 60 mins for Costa customers only.  But the mains sign doesn't say that, only the smaller signs state no general/ Costa customers only. . Anyhoo.  Thanks, willd do. 

Unkas

Ahh well, long shpeel received from Costa - 'We have no control over the fines - take it up with the parking provider' 

LDast

Depending on how long it was since your previous visit, when there were no restrictions, BPA CoP v8 19.10 may apply. Was it more or less than 4 months since your previous unrestricted visit?:

Where there is a change in the terms and conditions that materially affects the motorist then you must make these terms and conditions clear on your signage. Where such changes impose liability where none previously existed then you must consider a transition to allow regular visitors to the site to adjust and familiarise themselves with the changes. Best practice would be the installation of additional/ temporary signage at the entrance and throughout the site making it clear that new terms and conditions apply. This will ensure such that regular visitors who may be familiar with the previous terms become aware of the new ones.

It may be worth pointing out that in their latest version (v9) they have updated that requirement to:

Where there is any material change to any pre-existing terms and conditions that would not be immediately apparent to a motorist entering controlled land that is or has been open for public parking, you must place additional (temporary) notices at the site entrance for a period of not less than 4 months from the date of the change making it clear that new terms and conditions/ charges apply, such that regular visitors who might be familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur parking charges.

Fruitcake

Walk the site and take photos. Pick the route a motorist could possibly take where signs might be missing, or hidden by foliage or tall vehicles, or damaged, and photos of the space where the vehicle was parked from angles/positions that show how a driver might not see them.

Get photos of just the signs from, say, a vehicle length, and close up so they can be read.
Note that any sign saying Customers Only or similar is forbidding and offers nothing to someone who is not a customer. Without an offer, there can be no consideration, no acceptance, and therefore no contract formed.

Post your best selection of photos here for comment.

You best option is still Plan A, a landowner complaint and complaint to your MP.

Unkas

I have recently discovered a news article online in my local paper from a customer in a similar situation from 2019
So the temporary signage strategy is not going to work in this instance.  

They also complained to Costa with a similar outcome to mine -

"I went back to Costa and spoke to the staff. They confirmed that the car park did belong to them but was “monitored” by a private company"
 "I also contacted Costa’s head office to complain and was basically told they would not interfere on my behalf"

I must have just never noticed them/got away with it due to being under the 60 min allowance on previous occasions. 

I will now contact my local MP and as per Fruitcake's suggestion - walk the site and take more photos. 

Unkas

Some further digging, found some reviews on Trip advisor with one dated Jul 2023 -
"Received a parking fine for being in the shop for 90 minutes as they have now reduced the car park to 60 minutes" 

So it would seem it started with 90 then was reduced to 60 sometime in 2023.  Not really relevant I know and in my case it was over 120 mins if I recall. 

Written to my MP quoting Fruitcake's 'Customer's Only' line, thanks for that. 

Just keeping a blog in here for my own records more than anything else I guess. 

Will also be including a few pics I already had of the car park - need to get a car width's one of the smaller signs sorted. 

Unkas

Shot from the side of entry, crouching to about driver's seat position

Unkas

Entry close up

Unkas

smaller sign from Tescos fence