Civil enforcement error

fisherjim

Yes typical PPC drivel isn't it!

Amazing how authorities can convey their parking restrictions with a simple sign using very little wording, and images used in so many countries that have no language barrier, but these think all these words in small font are necessary.

These signs are not IMHO compliant, the overall impression states the 90 minute terms but the other stipulations about time bars and indeed the charges for non compliance are in a smaller font....I wonder why.

Add to that you have the lack of illumination.

They have also as suggested confused things even more by the contravention explanation which was not exceeding the free parking period but parking without authorisation or permit.

As I see it the driver had, after 11:30PM, a grace period of a minimum of 5 minutes (of course not stated on the abysmal signs) to read the T&C if they could and either accept and stay, or leave.

Also as the signage at that time of the day was prohibitive this was not overstaying but trespass.

 

Gr1pr

There is one more obvious condition, in large font 

FOR KFC CUSTOMERS ONLY 

the other conditions are from 6.30 am to 11.30 pm , and only permit holders out of hours , which is when this took place, so a forbidding sign and the only contract being offered was to permit holders 

UKPC appear to have used the wrong contravention when they issued the PCN, because its clear from their own timings that the vehicle wasnt on site for over 90 minutes 

The 90 minutes offer is in large font, so that is the expectation, on the other hand they provide the car park for their own customers and not for non-customers who are just using it for a different purpose like using a mobile phone 

It only contracts with permit holders from 23:30 until 06:30 , it says so 

The keeper should deny the contravention, the proof being their own timings on that PCN , unlit and poor signage too, plus any other reasonable arguments like no landowner authority etc, at Popla, if its not cancelled by UKPC at the first keeper appeal 

Coupon-mad

Very easy one!

The term relied upon in the NTK does not match the sign and does not apply after 11.30pm.  

Even POPLA will get it!

Brie

Coupon-mad said:

There is never a need to seek out a car park.

This is what the street kerbside is for.

Not all areas have street parking available.  Sometimes a car park is the only option.

Coupon-mad

Brie said:

Coupon-mad said:

There is never a need to seek out a car park.

This is what the street kerbside is for.

Not all areas have street parking available.  Sometimes a car park is the only option.

At that time of night - where?

I'm used to parking in London, Brighton, West Sussex towns, Oxford, Bristol and Cambridge regularly.  Some of those cities hate cars but you can always 'park' (in this case, briefly pull over)  somewhere at 11.40pm at night.

Stopping briefly to make a phone call at night is possible anywhere except a red route, a crossing or bus stop/lane (or DYL with blips). Any city or town I can think of, that would be possible.

Brie

Coupon-mad said:

Brie said:

Coupon-mad said:

There is never a need to seek out a car park.

This is what the street kerbside is for.

Not all areas have street parking available.  Sometimes a car park is the only option.

At that time of night - where?

I'm used to parking in London, Brighton, West Sussex towns, Oxford, Bristol and Cambridge regularly.  Some of those cities hate cars but you can always 'park' (in this case, briefly pull over)  somewhere at 11.40pm at night.

Stopping briefly to make a phone call at night is possible anywhere except a red route, a crossing or bus stop/lane (or DYL with blips). Any city or town I can think of, that would be possible.

Parts of Bournemouth where I used to live there was often times I couldn't park my car within a couple of miles of my house.  The nearest places were parking lots for shops.  Or illegally at bus stops.  

lydecker_777

Hi, to be honest with the kfc all lit up, I thought it was open, went to order using the app on my phone and realised it was closed , and looked where else was open ?

However the whole thing that really astounds me is how these cowboys, with their shoddy signage can obtain my personal data from the dvla for their 'charge', and I wonder how many people just pay them instead of fighting them?

Gr1pr

lydecker_777 said:

Hi,

However the whole thing that really astounds me is how these cowboys, with their shoddy signage can obtain my personal data from the dvla for their 'charge', and I wonder how many people just pay them instead of fighting them?

That is why Sir Greg Knight MP , the DLUHC , coupon mad and many, many others have been trying to change the system for the last 8 years or more , especially after the private members bill gained royal assent over 5 years ago 

Hopefully the new mandatory regulated system should kick in later this year, with a new CoP and hopefully an independent ADR 

lydecker_777

***UPDATE***

After a strongly worded email, mentioning the data protection act, and the misuse of my data I have received a reply from civil enforcement Ltd.. 

Please see attached letter below,
They are saying about the terms and conditions set out on the signage in the car park?

There is clearly no terms and conditions mentioning a 10 minute grace period..
And the original pcn was for exceeding the 90 minute stay !

So I van either pay £20..appeal to popla, or submit a small claim against them for misuse of my data, my time processing this farcical pcn, and the distress it has caused ?

Any advice appreciated 

Fruitcake

I have reported your post above because you have left personal data showing (PCN number and PoPLA code) that could be used by some unscrupulous person to make a rude and damaging appeal on your behalf.

You should also report the post yourself and/or delete the images.

This is despite the warning at the top of the forum page,

IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.