S & S ISA, rules, tax and things

NapoleonsBoneypart

If I have a S&S ISA and grow the value by buying and selling, I don't pay CGT or tax on dividends, ok. Is there a limit on how far  the ISA can grow?

Suppose I just want to sell the shares and hold the money there as cash? Does that make any difference?

If say the original 20k becomes 40k, can I transfer 20k to "somewhere else" still in the ISA wrapper?

Does anyone have this setup so can recommend an institution, for good service, wide range of instruments and reasonable fees? The trading platform I use is fee-free, but I wouldn't leave much there.

eskbanker

NapoleonsBoneypart said:

If I have a S&S ISA and grow the value by buying and selling, I don't pay CGT or tax on dividends, ok. Is there a limit on how far  the ISA can grow?
No.

Suppose I just want to sell the shares and hold the money there as cash? Does that make any difference?
No.

If say the original 20k becomes 40k, can I transfer 20k to "somewhere else" still in the ISA wrapper?
Yes, you can transfer from one ISA to another - not all ISAs allow inward transfers, but plenty do, and of those that do, not all will allow partial transfers.  Make sure you use the receiving provider's ISA transfer process to retain the ISA status of the money.

Does anyone have this setup so can recommend an institution, for good service, wide range of instruments and reasonable fees? The trading platform I use is fee-free, but I wouldn't leave much there.

Not sure what you mean by 'this setup'?

You can compare platform features and costs at https://monevator.com/compare-uk-cheapest-online-brokers/ 

Answers inline above....

NapoleonsBoneypart

Thanks. That backs up what I thought.

Is it called "bed and ISA"?

By "set-up" I mean using one platform to generate profits then transferring them when over a self-decided limit, to another. It's horses and courses, rather.

I've been using a  free trading platform for sums up to 85k, then shifting excess out to a large bank.

I haven't bothered to avoid payingtax so far, because the caper has been so much more profitable than I expected. Five figures has turned into, more, and don't need  a vast amount. It would be appropriate to work less though.

eskbanker

NapoleonsBoneypart said:

Thanks. That backs up what I thought.

Is it called "bed and ISA"?

What you've described isn't called 'bed & ISA', no - that term refers to bringing holdings into an ISA from outside the tax wrapper.

NapoleonsBoneypart said:

By "set-up" I mean using one platform to generate profits then transferring them when over a self-decided limit, to another. It's horses and courses, rather.

I've been using a  free trading platform for sums up to 85k, then shifting excess out to a large bank.

Some do use one platform for trading and then transfer to another for longer term holding, where the charging regimes make this worthwhile, so, for example, IWeb has no ongoing custody charge and is therefore suited to the latter role.

NapoleonsBoneypart

Thanks. It takes a while to transfer between ISAs though, I believe.

And also for that exc moneyvator link. I've given it to my wife, she's better at this lark than I am.

Perhaps if I put some numbers on it , simplified a lot:

I started at T212 with 20k, and used CFD on mostly chips & fuel and crypto-relateds which move a lot. Plus NVD3 , QQQ5 etc in "Invest", which is immune from being grabbed if the CFDs all went south.

At clearing 50k, in about a month,  25k went back to HSBC and one felt free to play with all the rest every day. In CFDs that  went to 6 figs in a week. Transfers about weekly,  and trading with "85k ish" actually  100-250k depending on my laziness to shift it.  I used Mag 7, chips, crypto-relateds and the NQ, at 5x and 20x.

It sounds  surprising, it was to me, but with oil or gas moving 10% in a day,  XXXk leveraged at 10x doubled the XXXk in a day. When fuels settled, crypto related stocks (at 5x) took my attention.

Using the lot in cfd would have done  better but I wanted to be able to take a big hit at any time.

Chose to accept taxation. I could have used isa money or Spread Betting,  I know.

Now I'd like to work less and use ISA money. We've added the maximas over the years so have some. At 75,PPs at max, don't need loadsa money. 

If HMG would do it, then they could buy hospitals and things. It's not hard, it should be an O level.

So I'm just looking for a simple arrangement now. No CFD in ISAs of course so rather less fun.

An alternative is SB and afaik, ignore tax. Is there a neater way?

NapoleonsBoneypart

Heavens to Bertie. (Or was it Betsy?)

Separate post because it's somewhat tangential.

I don't think I care much about fees, unless day-trading or only buying shares/stocks, or small volumes. If you're doing that, spreads can be more important for larger sizes..  (T212 or eToro are bad)

It's real webnerd stuff, saving a fraction of a percent here or there.

IWeb and Fidelity look good, not ii or X-O. IE ok if you dig.

Why?

Fund choice.

Some can't be bothered to even tell you what's available.

Go to your fave provider and search on India. With many, the best fund they can offer returned about 30% in the last year.

30% p.a. is Disgraceful, even if it was "free" to get,  instead of £12 to buy with a holding fee of  0.45% at, for example, HL.

HL have Jupiter India (as do many others but by no means all) which didn't return 30%, but 60%.

There are similar comparisons, if less starck,  in other sectors. China this last month, for example. I got 40%+. You?

Don't be penny wise and pound foolish!

eskbanker

NapoleonsBoneypart said:

Go to your fave provider and search on India. With many, the best fund they can offer returned about 30% in the last year.

30% p.a. is Disgraceful, even if it was "free" to get,  instead of £12 to buy with a holding fee of  0.45% at, for example, HL.

HL have Jupiter India (as do many others but by no means all) which didn't return 30%, but 60%.

There are similar comparisons, if less starck,  in other sectors. China this last month, for example. I got 40%+. You?

Don't be penny wise and pound foolish!

Your last comment is fair enough, but the rationale to get there is questionable, in that looking back at recent performance is rarely a sensible way to select investments, so the fact that some platforms didn't offer an Indian fund that happened to return 60% isn't a particularly sound basis on which to dismiss them!  When markets are dropping, the platform with the more restricted range may only have permitted an investor to lose 30% instead of 60%, would that have been "disgraceful" too?

NapoleonsBoneypart

The disgraceful bit there would be the behaviour of the investor.

It depends whether one is aware of what's going on or not. If something has been going up say 5% every month, it would be very unusual for it to drop all in one go. So if it begins to go flat or drop you take your profit and stick the money in MM at 5% ish or something else.

It doesn't take any cleverness or speed to do that. Jupiter India HAS actually just  jiggled over election concerns in India, so I've put most of it in UK and some in China. I've come out over 50% up. (They've each gone up a handy  few percent where they are now.. The US should be OK until the NVIDIA results, then anything. could happen.)

That's my beef with much of the sage financial advice we get - based on people buying and forgetting. Do you step off the kerb and then no longer check there's nothing coming?

It's mad, they should teach the topic in schools, and to HMG. I'm just an ordinary bloke who took some time to see something of how things worked.  When I tell "wise" people I spend some of my dotage moving money on the SM, they say Oh be careful you can lose it all, you know.. Oh really. Having turned the initial pot of 20k into 2m in half a year or so, my view of wisdom has changed. The tax bill is  eyebrow-raising so I kept going long enough to leave me at about 2m, which will see me out. (that's trading, not using the likes of JI).

Then it bcame a habit so it still grows, but arithmetically not exponentially any more.

Hence the question in the original post, what's the best place to work with S&S ISAs? Over the years we filled ISAs each year, so that's around 100k each which is enough to work with.

I have  lump with HL, who are very sensible and professional to deal with. They are pleasant, competent and helpful.

I also use some with Trading212, who don't fall into the same categories.

I don't spend much time looking, but Fidelity have a good number of funds and a website I like. Not a name I see praised much.

eskbanker

NapoleonsBoneypart said:

That's my beef with much of the sage financial advice we get - based on people buying and forgetting. Do you step off the kerb and then no longer check there's nothing coming?

Not sure the analogy fits, but it's horses for courses - most investors asking for advice will benefit from 'buy and hold' but of course there are those who are more independent and active, which can pay off with sufficient time, money, experience and luck.

NapoleonsBoneypart said:

Having turned the initial pot of 20k into 2m in half a year or so, my view of wisdom has changed. The tax bill is  eyebrow-raising so I kept going long enough to leave me at about 2m, which will see me out. (that's trading, not using the likes of JI).

If you've turned £20k into £2m in six months then that's emphatically trading rather than investing!

NapoleonsBoneypart said:

Hence the question in the original post, what's the best place to work with S&S ISAs? Over the years we filled ISAs each year, so that's around 100k each which is enough to work with.

I've never quite understood people who claim to have researched vast quantities of data about companies and markets but who have difficulty choosing between a relatively insignificant number of platforms on which to transact and/or hold!  However, if ISA balances only account for 5-10% of your portfolios, then probably not worth devoting much time and attention to them, and concentrate on the big stuff instead....

ColdIron

NapoleonsBoneypart said:

I have  lump with HL, who are very sensible and professional to deal with. They are pleasant, competent and helpful.

I hope it's not in one of their in-house or multi-manager cash cows funds

jimjames

NapoleonsBoneypart said:

I have  lump with HL, who are very sensible and professional to deal with. They are pleasant, competent and helpful.

You missed out another word - expensive!