Overpayment for windows and doors

eskbanker

likeadogonabone said:

I have established the inflated charge / overpayment is £15K

likeadogonabone said:

I asked a local established and very well known firm to quote for the exact same work and the difference (overcharge) of £15,000 was confirmed

likeadogonabone said:

The total amount paid amounts to £22K when it should have been £7K

Just to be clear, if one company quotes £7K for a job and another charges £22K, that doesn't necessarily signify that the latter is overcharging over the 'right' price as such, it just means that one is cheap and the other expensive.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend the more expensive ones as such, but just highlighting that price variances in themselves, even large ones, aren't actually unlawful, so you need to be clear about specifically on what basis you're reporting them to Trading Standards.

eskbanker said:

likeadogonabone said:

I have contacted the regulatory organisations to which this company is apparently a member of and they are not interested in financial disputes.

Which organisations are you referring to here?  I'm not aware of this industry being regulated as such, but trade associations will usually have some sort of code of conduct, which is likely to be the most productive route, in the apparent absence of anything unlawful?

Any comment on this?

likeadogonabone

This is the like-for-like quote I was given by the local firm:

Bay window (lounge) = £1800
Front bedroom window (ground floor) = £1500
Porch doors = £1350 
Patio doors = £1200 
Main bathroom window (ground floor) = £600
En suite bathroom window (ground floor) = £500

Total (4 windows / 2 sets of doors) = £6,950 (fitted)


How the other firm arrived at £22K is beyond belief of the local firm. My stepmother has been ripped off.

Aylesbury_Duck

likeadogonabone said:

Thank you for your replies, though I sense I am peeing in the wind with this and all the effort so far may be in vain.

The total amount paid amounts to £22K when it should have been £7K.

Citizens Advice told me when I first reported this (March 2024) that they will notify Trading Standards. I have heard nothing since.

It is extremely frustrating that this firm cannot be made to explain what they have done. How these sales people operate without a conscience is something I simply cannot understand.

My stepmother meanwhile is delighted with her new doors and windows and will tell anyone who wants to listen how good the firm is. Thank goodness my Dad cannot learn of what has happened and how their hard earned money has been taken from them. The amount overpaid covers months of care for my Dad. Dementia is a wicked condition and coupled with wicked, greedy sales people the result is extreme emotional pain.

That's the sort of price variance I've seen before.  Neighbours had Anglian out to quote.  The first quote was £28k and four hours later(!) that had come down to £11k.  They went with a local firm for £9k.

Bear in mind it's easy for the local firm to tell you what they would have charged...after the event.  They have no custom to gain, no need to factor in negotiation on their first estimate, just reputation, and giving you an undercooked figure helps with the latter.

Hypothetically, some haggling might have secured a decent discount off the £22k.  Add a few thousand to the wise-after-the-event quote from the local firm to perhaps represent a more genuine quote, and the two figures might not have been so far apart.  At what point does price variance become exploitation?  There shouldn't be a pricing cartel, either.  I'm not defending the company, but it's important to look at it from all perspectives, particularly before commencing any sort of regulatory or legal action, and one conclusion is that without evidence of coercion or exploitation, all that's happened is that your stepmother has selected a relatively expensive supplier and accepted their first price.  She's clearly happy with the quality of the doors and windows and the service received, it's not as if cowboys have left her with ill-fitting doors and draughty windows.

Aylesbury_Duck

likeadogonabone said:

This is the like-for-like quote I was given by the local firm:

Bay window (lounge) = £1800
Front bedroom window (ground floor) = £1500
Porch doors = £1350 
Patio doors = £1200 
Main bathroom window (ground floor) = £600
En suite bathroom window (ground floor) = £500

Total (4 windows / 2 sets of doors) = £6,950 (fitted)


How the other firm arrived at £22K is beyond belief of the local firm. My stepmother has been ripped off.

As per my previous post, easy for them to say now.  What evidence do you have that this local firm are a good outfit?

You need to temper your language when dealing with this.  Saying things like "ripped off", "overcharged", etc. may reflect what's happened, but at the moment that's not certain.  Keep to facts and avoid emotive language when speaking to CAB or Trading Standards.  You've gathered some evidence of a comparative quote, it appears to suggest that what was charged by the company was unreasonable and you fear there may have been an element of hard-sales pressure, coercion or exploitation involved, given the health of your stepmother.  Let them work with that if they consider there to be sufficient evidence to investigate.

likeadogonabone

Thank you for replies and guidance, which is understood.

likeadogonabone

This feels like the end of the line and that my hopes and efforts have been in vain.

They've got away with it.

Anyhow, thanks again.

elsien

I think maybe you misunderstand the role of trading standards a little because it has changed from previously.
They tend not to deal with individual cases. So the company may be on their radar and they are waiting for other reports to come in about it and your complaint may form the basis of action in the future. They may well not get directly involved in getting your stepmother’s money back.
Your stepmother is still happy with the deal that she has made. You may feel it’s incredibly poor decision, and it may well be, but it is still her decision to make. You haven’t said anything that indicate she can no longer manage her own finances. She doesn’t have a formal dementia diagnosis and even if she did, I work with people who have dementia at the moment can still manage their money. 

It is commendable that you want to look out for her. And you may well be right about the company, but at the end of the day it’s still about the boundaries of her decision making and where they lie. And behind-the-scenes trading standards may well be monitoring and taking action when they can. 

eskbanker

elsien said:

I think maybe you misunderstand the role of trading standards a little because it has changed from previously.
They tend not to deal with individual cases. So the company may be on their radar and they are waiting for other reports to come in about it and your complaint may form the basis of action in the future. They may well not get directly involved in getting your stepmother’s money back.

I'd go further than that and say that they definitely won't:

Trading Standards can take businesses to court or stop them operating, but they won’t help you fix your problem - for example, they can’t help you get a refund.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/get-more-help/report-to-trading-standards/

likeadogonabone said:

This feels like the end of the line and that my hopes and efforts have been in vain.

They've got away with it.

Not sure that you need to simply throw the towel in, as that certainly wasn't what was being suggested in the previous posts, which were effectively saying that you need to take care constructing a compelling case and ascertaining the right place to take it.

born_again

Could be something that local paper might take a interest in, if it is also a local company.

RefluentBeans

I’m sorry that your mother has likely been taken advantage of. When we had our windows done, we saw the same sort of price gauging from the big suppliers. As others have said, they start off high and work their way down to a more reasonable price. Unfortunately, if you accept the high price then it is exponentially harder to renegotiate to a lower price after the fact. 

Saying that, I think the best thing you can do is look for price reduction reasons. Go round and look like a hawk. Presumably because you paid over three times the price of the other quote then you should have a significantly better quality service. Saying that, I think you do need to give the company an opportunity to fix any snags. But if you go round and find anything obviously wrong, then you may benefit from seeing how much it would cost for someone to professionally compile a snag list. 

I think you will have a very hard time to find a significant price reduction, and I think if it went to court, it’s unlikely a court would reduce the price to £7000. But the company may be willing to let some money go in exchange for you not posting a negative review etc. But I think you need to be realistic, and I think together with a snag report and not posting a negative review (hopefully you haven’t already) then I think you may be able to get a couple of thousand back. Better than nothing, but not much more you can get I think