Overpayment for windows and doors

likeadogonabone

Hello,

A vulnerable relative has overpaid for windows and doors (double glazing).

The issue is not with the quality of the products installed and workmanship, it's the callous and greedy behaviour of the sales reps. I have established the inflated charge / overpayment is £15K and this far too much to ignore. 

I have contacted citizens advice / trading standards and written several letters to the company concerned. They have responded with undated letters requesting a phone call. My concern is that this will yield nothing but more anger and resentment for me.

I have the copies of the contracts that were signed in September 2023 but they are barely readable and my requests for all the associated detail for the work completed and (over)paid for have so far been ignored. 

Is there anything I can do to pursue compensation please?

Aylesbury_Duck

Do you have authority to act for your relative?  If not, the company is entitled to ignore you, so that's the first thing to sort out.

On what basis do you think your relative has overpaid?

elsien

And in what way are they vulnerable, presuming they have capacity to manage their own finances? 

likeadogonabone

Hello and thank you for your replies.

The relative (my stepmother) has been caring for my Dad for the last few years as his health condition (vascular dementia) deteriorated. The stress and associated symptoms (poor sleep quality in particular) has taken its toll on her and it came to a head a few months ago when we had to act and Dad is now resident in a local care home. The NHS Admiral Nurse has been an invaluable resource. My stepmother's behaviour has indicated symptoms of a condition for a year or so now, in particular short term memory loss, and this has been noted by the NHS Admiral Nurse. When Dad was able he would look after their finances and it's become clear that my stepmother, who would and still does say that everything is "fine", has been struggling to cope for a long time now but is very reticent about her personal affairs, be it health or finances. She was a teacher for 30 years and her own admission has always been used to helping others and finds it very hard to ask for help.

I found about the contracts she signed with the glazing firm by tip off from one of my stepmother's friends who was becoming increasingly concerned about what was going on. The workmen were on site completing the installation (last of 3 visits). I called and spoke with one of the fitters and then exploded with anger when he told me how much money he had been asked to collect (a "final payment" cheque). When I pressed him he admitted the fee was far too much. He explained he was just following orders and that he wouldn't take payment, instead I should call the office, a phone number in the Exeter area. The individual who answered the phone was very unpleasant and unhelpful and I could hear others just laughing in the background. At this point I knew for sure that the situation was bad. This was a Monday morning and I dropped everything to jump in my car and drive down from my home in Bucks to my parents' home in Devon (4 hours away). When I got there I found the paperwork and cheques that had been written and cashed over a period of several months. My heart sank. I asked my stepmother why she had not asked for help in obtaining quotes from a few firms if she wanted new windows and doors but she didn't really answer. When I showed her how much she had paid she burst out crying. This has been extremely painful. My stepmother has told me she cannot remember how she came into contact with them. The next day I asked a local established and very well known firm to quote for the exact same work and the difference (overcharge) of £15,000 was confirmed. They had not heard of this other firm. I firmly believe the sales reps from this other firm have taken advantage of my stepmother. 

LPAs (for finance and property only) were created several years ago:
Me (for my Dad) and my Stepmother's Cousin once removed (for my Stepmother)

On advice from the NHS Admiral Nurse we were advised to create an LPA (for health and wellbeing) for my Stepmother. We did that (together with a new LPA for finance and property).

The OPG has sent a confirmation letter that the new LPAs will soon official (estimate is by end of May 2024).

To recap, the letters I have sent to the glazing firm so far (by recorded mail to an address in Essex) have included a signed authority by my stepmother for all correspondence to come through me. The last letter dated 26th March 2024 requesting a clear and detailed breakdown of the installations made has so far been ignored.

I have contacted the regulatory organisations to which this company is apparently a member of and they are not interested in financial disputes.

This becomes more depressing every time I explain it. Is there anything I can do please?   

eskbanker

likeadogonabone said:

I have contacted the regulatory organisations to which this company is apparently a member of and they are not interested in financial disputes.

Which organisations are you referring to here?  I'm not aware of this industry being regulated as such, but trade associations will usually have some sort of code of conduct, which is likely to be the most productive route, in the apparent absence of anything unlawful?

[Deleted User]

Contact Trading Standards.
This is the kind of case they take a keen interest in and it's quite possibly that other people in the local area have also made complaints.
Good luck with it...

Aylesbury_Duck

[Deleted User] said:

Contact Trading Standards.
This is the kind of case they take a keen interest in and it's quite possibly that other people in the local area have also made complaints.
Good luck with it...

I agree.  

Something to consider is the extent of the apparent overcharging.  We haven't been given an idea of the total order size.  £15k is of course a large absolute sum, but what was the actual order cost?  I know of people who've paid many thousands more to a national glazing chain than they could have done through a local outfit to have windows replaced.  Throw in a couple of doors and the differences can mount up.  The old sales tactic of starting high and gradually applying discounts when it's apparent the customer is baulking at the price is a typical one of the larger chains.  That doesn't make it unlawful, no matter how immoral it is.

Good luck with it, it's a very unpleasant situation.

Okell

likeadogonabone said:

... I have contacted citizens advice / trading standards...

What responses - if any - have you had?   Have TS even acknowledged you?

Absent of any indication of a way forward from CAB/TS I'm not sure what you can do.

I may be mistaken but I'm not aware of any consumer legislation that specifically protects "vulnerable adults" from being pressured into making bad purchase decisions.  If there is such protection I suspect it will be enforced by Trading Standards as a criminal offence and not something a private individual could pursue.  (eg The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (legislation.gov.uk) )

I think you do need to try to get through to TS for assistance, but you will almost certainly have to go via CAB and persuade them to get TS to talk to you.

Assuming that gets you nowhere, you could try one of the financial "agony aunt" columns in the national press.  They always seem to be able to get resolutions that ordianary people can't.

Failing all that you could try suing them in small claims(?) but (i) I'm not sure what the basis of your claim would be, and (ii) max claim amount is £10,000.  But if you even just started the claims process it might be enough to make them think it's not worth the hassle of defending even a claim that's unlikely to win.  [Edit:  I'm not recommending suing them.  I'm saying it's a last resort as I'm not sure you have any sort of case]

Good Luck.  I'm afraid you'll probably need it...

elsien

Although just a flag up that having LPA still does not give you any right to take over any of her finances without her consent while she still has capacity. You would need a specific financial capacity assessment to indicate otherwise. 

And whilst I fully appreciate you are trying to protect your relative, you do have to take account of what she wants to do as well rather than just taking over completely.

likeadogonabone

Thank you for your replies, though I sense I am peeing in the wind with this and all the effort so far may be in vain.

The total amount paid amounts to £22K when it should have been £7K.

Citizens Advice told me when I first reported this (March 2024) that they will notify Trading Standards. I have heard nothing since.

It is extremely frustrating that this firm cannot be made to explain what they have done. How these sales people operate without a conscience is something I simply cannot understand.

My stepmother meanwhile is delighted with her new doors and windows and will tell anyone who wants to listen how good the firm is. Thank goodness my Dad cannot learn of what has happened and how their hard earned money has been taken from them. The amount overpaid covers months of care for my Dad. Dementia is a wicked condition and coupled with wicked, greedy sales people the result is extreme emotional pain.

MeteredOut

Can you share how many windows and doors for the £22K? I assume the £7K quote was on a like-for-like basis?