SECTION 21 ADVICE PLEASE

[Deleted User]

I was issued a section 21 no fault eviction by my landlord which expires on 8 May. I am in the process of buying a house which should go through by the end of 31st may. Obviously until exchange of contracts I can't give the landlord a leaving date. Have relayed this to the middle man management company who have now advised me I'll need to give a months notice once I know when I can leave? Surely not? If I gave a date based on an estimate I'm putting myself in the line of homelessness if it all falls through and I've given an actual notice to leave as I would get no help from anywhere. If I have to give them a month from exchange of contracts id be signing myself up for an extra month in a property that 1) I wouldn't be living in 2) was desperate for me to leave by next week and is now trying to make me stay for potentially a minimum of up
to 2 months after the section 21 date they wanted me to leave by? They were desperate enough to get me out by next week they served me a minimum term section 21 out of the blue after 12 years of living here. My solicitors plan is to exchange one week and complete the next so I can tell them I am surrendering the tenancy on X date ( couple of days after completing giving them effectively maybe 2 weeks notice) and given that they served me a section 21 basically asking me to have already surrendered the tenancy! 

Can someone please explain the madness of this because my mind is blown and I feel like I'm being absolutely done over. 

To add the landlord wants to refurb the place and sell it 

BarelySentientAI

Section 21 doesn't state a "get out of the house" date.  It has an "if you are not out of the house by this date then I might start the paperwork to eventually get a court to tell you to move out" date.

On the other hand, you can't just say "well you wanted me out before so I'm not giving proper notice" either.

Moving from rented to owned often has some sort of overlap because of notice periods.  The best ways to manage that are timing and communication.  Sounds like a mismatch in the first is causing problems with the second. 

[Deleted User]

BarelySentientAI said:

Section 21 doesn't state a "get out of the house" date.  It has an "if you are not out of the house by this date then I might start the paperwork to eventually get a court to tell you to move out" date.

On the other hand, you can't just say "well you wanted me out before so I'm not giving proper notice" either.

Moving from rented to owned often has some sort of overlap because of notice periods.  The best ways to manage that are timing and communication.  Sounds like a mismatch in the first is causing problems with the second. 

Thank you. 

The letter accompanying the section 21 stated "you MUST vacate the premises as soon as you can find alternative accommodation before this date. Unless a EARLIER date is discussed we will arrange to collect the keys from you on 08/05/2024. Failiure to adhere to this date will result in court proceedings to legally evict you" this says that I've got to be out, not a suggestion they might possibly at some point? 

theartfullodger

NEGOTIATE! Landlord wants you out he'd be stupid not to agree to a quick exit 

However having a brain is not a requirement for being a landlord....(speaking for myself...)

 Formally you are required to give AT LEAST a month's notice, expiring on the first or last day of periodic tenancy.  But do a deal with landlord - go straight to him, bypass agent.

Get his address from Land Registry, £3, takes 5 minutes.

Artful: Landlord since 2000

Bookworm105

[Deleted User] said:

BarelySentientAI said:

Section 21 doesn't state a "get out of the house" date.  It has an "if you are not out of the house by this date then I might start the paperwork to eventually get a court to tell you to move out" date.

On the other hand, you can't just say "well you wanted me out before so I'm not giving proper notice" either.

Moving from rented to owned often has some sort of overlap because of notice periods.  The best ways to manage that are timing and communication.  Sounds like a mismatch in the first is causing problems with the second. 

Thank you. 

The letter accompanying the section 21 stated "you MUST vacate the premises as soon as you can find alternative accommodation before this date. Unless a EARLIER date is discussed we will arrange to collect the keys from you on 08/05/2024. Failiure to adhere to this date will result in court proceedings to legally evict you" this says that I've got to be out, not a suggestion they might possibly at some point? 

welcome to the world of the letting agent who says what his customer (the landlord) wants to hear, and ignores what the law actually says he must do. 
they can come to the door and ask for the keys, you can tell them to go hither and return with a valid court order granting possession to the LL.

that said, as has been mentioned, you can't ignore the other foot either. The law says you must give notice yourself, you can't just go when it suits you because it is now x days after the S21 date. 

anselld

Besides the requirement to give notice you may also find yourself liable to Court costs if the L decides to file for possession after expiry of the s21.  Another reason to negotiate/consult with the L and convince them that you will be leaving asap and they do not need to make a formal claim.

elsien

[Deleted User] said:

BarelySentientAI said:

Section 21 doesn't state a "get out of the house" date.  It has an "if you are not out of the house by this date then I might start the paperwork to eventually get a court to tell you to move out" date.

On the other hand, you can't just say "well you wanted me out before so I'm not giving proper notice" either.

Moving from rented to owned often has some sort of overlap because of notice periods.  The best ways to manage that are timing and communication.  Sounds like a mismatch in the first is causing problems with the second. 

Thank you. 

The letter accompanying the section 21 stated "you MUST vacate the premises as soon as you can find alternative accommodation before this date. Unless a EARLIER date is discussed we will arrange to collect the keys from you on 08/05/2024. Failiure to adhere to this date will result in court proceedings to legally evict you" this says that I've got to be out, not a suggestion they might possibly at some point? 

No, it actually says if you’re not out on that date, they will start court eviction proceedings. 

It just says it in a more misleading way. 

propertyrental

You do NOT have to leave on the 8th May. If the LL or agent turns up demanding the keys, quote the 'Protection from Eviction Act 1977 and refuse to leave.

However if you stay and the LL goes to court to apply for possession, you MAY have to pay his court fees.

As said above, if you leave, you should either

a) have a mutual agreement with the LL/agent regarding the date (and rent being paid pro rata on a daily basis till that date), or

b) serve the correct notice, which depends on what kind of contract you have (SPT or CPT).

By far the best solution is an amicable agreement (confirmed in writing). After all, the LL wants you to leave, you want to leave, it's just the date that's to be negotiated - and it's in neither of your interests to have court involvement

doodling

Hi,

[Deleted User] said:

BarelySentientAI said:

Section 21 doesn't state a "get out of the house" date.  It has an "if you are not out of the house by this date then I might start the paperwork to eventually get a court to tell you to move out" date.

On the other hand, you can't just say "well you wanted me out before so I'm not giving proper notice" either.

Moving from rented to owned often has some sort of overlap because of notice periods.  The best ways to manage that are timing and communication.  Sounds like a mismatch in the first is causing problems with the second. 

Thank you. 

The letter accompanying the section 21 stated "you MUST vacate the premises as soon as you can find alternative accommodation before this date. Unless a EARLIER date is discussed we will arrange to collect the keys from you on 08/05/2024. Failiure to adhere to this date will result in court proceedings to legally evict you" this says that I've got to be out, not a suggestion they might possibly at some point? 

There are three main ways tenancies end:

1. By mutual agreement, the landlord and tenant come to an agreement about when the tenancy will end and what amount of rent will be paid up until that point.  (Note that rent is generally indivisible so if you don't agree pro-rata-ing of rent then staying one day into a rent period means that you should pay for the whole period).
2. By the tenant giving notice as specified, either by statute or by their contract as applicable and the tenant then leaving on or before the date on which the (correctly served!) notice ends.
3. By the landlord notifying the tenant that their are going to apply to a court for possession of the property using one of the pre-defined grounds in the relevant Housing Act (of which S21 is one), then the landlord going to court and successfully convincing a court that they should grant possession.  If the tenant is particularly tenacious then they can wait until bailiffs actually turn up to physically throw them out.  This route has some costs for the tenant (I think court costs are ~£300 which the court will usually order that the tenant pays as part of the order, I assume the bailiff costs are also payable by the tenant if they wait that long but I don't know that).

The only people who can end a tenancy are the tenant or a court (not the landlord, or their agent).  Unless the letter you have received is from a court then it cannot end the tenancy and you can safety ignore any "requirements" that the letter might contain.

You are required to give the correct notice to leave, even if the landlord has issued a S21 - this is because a S21 has no effect on a tenancy, it is merely an indication that the landlord is thinking about applying to a court to end the tenancy, it is absolutely not a notice which can end the tenancy in any way.

The reality is that the S21 process will take several months so you have plenty of time before you are evicted.  The normal process when moving from rented to home ownership is to wait until you have exchanged contracts on the new home before you give notice on the rental, that way you should not end up homeless.  Unless things work out unusually well, there will inevitably be some overlap between the end of the tenancy and the completion on the new house - treat that as an opportunity to move in a leisurely fashion.

Zoe02

Just communicate with the landlord.

S21 not instant, mine took .5 months from start to finish.

If you do not communicate and it does get to end stage etc they might get you to pay the court fees £355.

So close think should be fine. Personally if the tenant communicates this would be easy to come with a fair agreement. 

GDB2222

There’s a certain amount of misplaced optimism here. The OP is not moving out when asked to by the Landlord, as is the OP's right. However, he is then going to ask the landlord to be flexible about the notice the OP has to give.