At a dead end with Land Registry charge

Brownie2k

Hi guys,

I'm at a bit of a dead end here and not sure what to do now or where to go.

My mum wants to remortgage her house and everything has gone through regarding the money side and upon solicitor checks, a charge was found against the house at the land registry. This is a CCJ that was put on the house in relation to a loan my dad got out in 1991 in both his and my mums name. This was defaulted on and a CCJ was issued on 1994, and my dad offered to pay the loan back at the time. We've no idea whether he did or not and for the most part my mum had no idea this was on the house.

The loan was taken out with the HFC and the CCJ was issued by Altrincham County Court. Both of those no longer exist, and HSBC, who took on HFC have no record of the loan or anything like that. Also we can't contact the court as that too is long too. So as it stands we've no idea what to do or where to go. Land registry want proof that we've tried to find out what happened to the debt but no matter who we ask, nothing can be done. HSBC won't do us a letter saying they have no record of the loan or debt, and no other Court in the area have any information too. 

Where do I go from here? The debt is in limbo as are we. The remortgage is at a standstill because Land registry refuse to remove the charge as things stand.

Any help would be fantastic!

user1977

Aren't the solicitors offering any advice? It may take a court application to get it removed.

Brownie2k

Hi, thanks for the reply,

No the solicitors are saying it's "out of their field of expertise" or something along them lines.

We're just completely confused as to what to do now as the debt seems to have just vanished. We can't even offer to pay it off as we don't know who owns it or anything 

km1500

well the final remedy in all these things is that you will have to go to court, explain the situation and get them to discharge the charge

EssexHebridean

First thing to point out here is that this is not the Land Registry’s fault. They simply act to administrate paperwork they are given - so they were given the paperwork to register the charge against the property originally, and that is what they did. In exactly the same way, they cannot remove the charge until they are given some form of paperwork which allows them to do this. So it’s not that they “won’t” remove the charge - it’s that right now, they can’t remove it. 

I suspect you will need a more specialist form of solicitors to look into this one for you. The firm acting on the remortgage are very probably just a general high street conveyancing lead firm, in which case it would be likely that the situation you find yourself in is indeed outside of their area. 

user1977

Brownie2k said:

No the solicitors are saying it's "out of their field of expertise" or something along them lines.

Then you go find a solicitor who is capable of sorting it out.

EssexHebridean

Try this. Write to HSBC instructing them to provide you with a redemption statement for the charge. Ask for it to be as at a date 21 days ahead of when you write with a daily rate of interest thereafter, and tell them that if they are unable to provide a redemption statement, they should instead provide the discharge paperwork for the charge. Tell them also that if they fail to provide either, you will then be applying to the court for the discharge of the charging order. Put the property address and your Father’s name in the letter. It might be that will prompt them to action, but if not, then at least you have a clear course of action to go to the court with. 

TBG01

Brownie2k said:

 because Land registry refuse to remove the charge as things 

Rightfully so.

The Land Registry have seen no evidence to suggest the charge has been redeemed.

Don't you think it would set a dangerous precedent if Land Registry just started taking people's word that they've paid off their loan and or mortgage?

I do have sympathy for you. It sucks when these historic issues rear their head, but you're looking to put the blame on someone who's following the correct procedures.

Millsandovis

Land Registry are a cut and dry organisation. They only care about making sure buyers have good title when purchasing a property. Once you get the proof they’ll remove it - and from experience - fairly quickly. Put your energy into chasing HSBC rather than LR 

user1977

EssexHebridean said:

Try this. Write to HSBC instructing them to provide you with a redemption statement for the charge. Ask for it to be as at a date 21 days ahead of when you write with a daily rate of interest thereafter, and tell them that if they are unable to provide a redemption statement, they should instead provide the discharge paperwork for the charge. Tell them also that if they fail to provide either, you will then be applying to the court for the discharge of the charging order. Put the property address and your Father’s name in the letter. It might be that will prompt them to action, but if not, then at least you have a clear course of action to go to the court with. 

If the charge hadn't been assigned to HSBC then they won't be able to do anything about it.

Often the problem with loan book acquisitions is that the loan has been redeemed with the old lender (or perhaps in this case written off), but nothing was done about the security. HSBC buy the loan book from the original lender, but they only get charges assigned for the "live" accounts. Old lender is wound up, company dissolved, nobody is left to discharge the security.

If the original lender is dissolved then the Treasury Solicitor might be able to deal with their assets, but they may need persuading that there was still a debt - in this case perhaps there was? But I think their attitude is that they can't discharge securities if there wasn't actually anything due (because there's no asset associated with the security).

EssexHebridean

The hope is that at the least the OP might get a letter stating clearly what the exact position is. It will also force HSBC to actually look into it properly - which - who knows - might even turn up some more useful information! Of course, the other risk is that it will turn out that it never was paid off previously, in which case the original debt, plus the last 30 years of interest will be payable…