10k UC overpayment

sheramber

Danien said:

peteuk said:

Danien said:

peteuk said:

Page 1 shows the later confirming the date the new address was accepted.

Page 1 shows the later confirming the date the new address was accepted.

Yes, but not whether they even looked at the period from move in to date of notification. The OP may have appealed the overpayment, but needs to have a decision to appeal with regards to entitlement from date of move in to date of notification of address change. An appeal judge cannot look at a decision that has not been made.

So either the decision was made and medusa80 has something that says 'you are not entitled from (whatever date of move in) to (day before whatever date of notification of address change was), or she only has what she showed us which says you are entitled from date of notification of address change because you did not notify us earlier. That does not say they have considered the period from move in date, only that they have only considered from the date OP notified them.

Take it before the appeal judge and they will say they cannot look at the entitlement prior to date of notification as there is not an appealable decision there if the DWP themselves have not made an explicit decision. I've been in an appeal where a judge said this - part of the matter had to go back to the DWP to decide on. 

In my opinion (correct me if I'm wrong) here is the issue: The current appeal is stalling recovery. If medusa80 does not go to appeal with all the right decisions in place, the overpayment appeal will fail. The judge will probably send the matter back to DWP to decide entitlement from date of move in to date of notification of move, with possibly suggestion about offsetting if entitlement exists.

At the point the appeal fails the DWP are likely to put recovery into place on existing UC claim. If the DWP then refuse entitlement that matter would need to be appealed, all the time recovery continuing unless DWP agree to hold recovery.

Better to make sure medusa80 has the right decisions in place and go forward from there.

So:  1) medusa80 needs to check if she has an actual decision stating whether entitlement to housing element exists at current property from date of moving in to the day before the current housing element starts.

If yes entitlement does exist: then medusa80 needs to request offsetting from DWP against current overpayment for sane period. If that offsetting is refused, I would still take that matter to appeal whether discretionary or not.

If no decision exists on entitlement to housing element from date of move in to day before current entitlement to housing element starts, then an explicit decision needs to be requested. Of the decision gives entitlement, then again request offsetting and take to appeal if refused.

If the decision on entitlement to housing element for the period in question is refused, then go through the process mandatory reconsideration and appeal and then request both matters - this appeal and overpayment appeal get looked at in same appeal as they are joined.

But again I wouldn't advise medusa80 does this alone, but gets an experienced adviser to help them who understands the issues.

The letter reads…

The overpayment occurred due to the housing costs not being

verified for over two years after you moved into the property. On your claim you was still registered as living

at (address removed)  and the money you received for housing each AP was for this address. Only verified housing can be paid and your current address wasn't verified until September 2023.

The housing costs are now verified for from the date you made the change on your claim 28/09/2023 (AP 01/09/23 - 30/09/23) and you will continue to receive the housing element going forward.

Implying that both decisions have been made.  They have accepted the new address from Sept 2023 and discarded any back dating of the address.  If they had accepted the back dating of the address the letter would have be written so.

I don't read it the same way, I read it as explanation of the overpayment and not necessarily a formal decision regarding entitlement at address b during that period - they do not say that they are unable to verify housing for that period, or that they refuse to, only that only verified housing can qualify for housing element. I accept that my reading may not be correct UC isn't my particular area. But therefore if you're correct a mandatory reconsideration of the decision not to verify address from date of move in and award housing element would be the way to go. And then appeal if that decision is refused, and then link the appeal to the overpayment appeal so both are looked at at the same time. 

“ I said could I back date a claim for new address and they said no. “

Danien

sheramber said:

Danien said:

peteuk said:

Danien said:

peteuk said:

Page 1 shows the later confirming the date the new address was accepted.

Page 1 shows the later confirming the date the new address was accepted.

Yes, but not whether they even looked at the period from move in to date of notification. The OP may have appealed the overpayment, but needs to have a decision to appeal with regards to entitlement from date of move in to date of notification of address change. An appeal judge cannot look at a decision that has not been made.

So either the decision was made and medusa80 has something that says 'you are not entitled from (whatever date of move in) to (day before whatever date of notification of address change was), or she only has what she showed us which says you are entitled from date of notification of address change because you did not notify us earlier. That does not say they have considered the period from move in date, only that they have only considered from the date OP notified them.

Take it before the appeal judge and they will say they cannot look at the entitlement prior to date of notification as there is not an appealable decision there if the DWP themselves have not made an explicit decision. I've been in an appeal where a judge said this - part of the matter had to go back to the DWP to decide on. 

In my opinion (correct me if I'm wrong) here is the issue: The current appeal is stalling recovery. If medusa80 does not go to appeal with all the right decisions in place, the overpayment appeal will fail. The judge will probably send the matter back to DWP to decide entitlement from date of move in to date of notification of move, with possibly suggestion about offsetting if entitlement exists.

At the point the appeal fails the DWP are likely to put recovery into place on existing UC claim. If the DWP then refuse entitlement that matter would need to be appealed, all the time recovery continuing unless DWP agree to hold recovery.

Better to make sure medusa80 has the right decisions in place and go forward from there.

So:  1) medusa80 needs to check if she has an actual decision stating whether entitlement to housing element exists at current property from date of moving in to the day before the current housing element starts.

If yes entitlement does exist: then medusa80 needs to request offsetting from DWP against current overpayment for sane period. If that offsetting is refused, I would still take that matter to appeal whether discretionary or not.

If no decision exists on entitlement to housing element from date of move in to day before current entitlement to housing element starts, then an explicit decision needs to be requested. Of the decision gives entitlement, then again request offsetting and take to appeal if refused.

If the decision on entitlement to housing element for the period in question is refused, then go through the process mandatory reconsideration and appeal and then request both matters - this appeal and overpayment appeal get looked at in same appeal as they are joined.

But again I wouldn't advise medusa80 does this alone, but gets an experienced adviser to help them who understands the issues.

The letter reads…

The overpayment occurred due to the housing costs not being

verified for over two years after you moved into the property. On your claim you was still registered as living

at (address removed)  and the money you received for housing each AP was for this address. Only verified housing can be paid and your current address wasn't verified until September 2023.

The housing costs are now verified for from the date you made the change on your claim 28/09/2023 (AP 01/09/23 - 30/09/23) and you will continue to receive the housing element going forward.

Implying that both decisions have been made.  They have accepted the new address from Sept 2023 and discarded any back dating of the address.  If they had accepted the back dating of the address the letter would have be written so.

I don't read it the same way, I read it as explanation of the overpayment and not necessarily a formal decision regarding entitlement at address b during that period - they do not say that they are unable to verify housing for that period, or that they refuse to, only that only verified housing can qualify for housing element. I accept that my reading may not be correct UC isn't my particular area. But therefore if you're correct a mandatory reconsideration of the decision not to verify address from date of move in and award housing element would be the way to go. And then appeal if that decision is refused, and then link the appeal to the overpayment appeal so both are looked at at the same time. 

“ I said could I back date a claim for new address and they said no. “

sheramber said:

Danien said:

peteuk said:

Danien said:

peteuk said:

Page 1 shows the later confirming the date the new address was accepted.

Page 1 shows the later confirming the date the new address was accepted.

Yes, but not whether they even looked at the period from move in to date of notification. The OP may have appealed the overpayment, but needs to have a decision to appeal with regards to entitlement from date of move in to date of notification of address change. An appeal judge cannot look at a decision that has not been made.

So either the decision was made and medusa80 has something that says 'you are not entitled from (whatever date of move in) to (day before whatever date of notification of address change was), or she only has what she showed us which says you are entitled from date of notification of address change because you did not notify us earlier. That does not say they have considered the period from move in date, only that they have only considered from the date OP notified them.

Take it before the appeal judge and they will say they cannot look at the entitlement prior to date of notification as there is not an appealable decision there if the DWP themselves have not made an explicit decision. I've been in an appeal where a judge said this - part of the matter had to go back to the DWP to decide on. 

In my opinion (correct me if I'm wrong) here is the issue: The current appeal is stalling recovery. If medusa80 does not go to appeal with all the right decisions in place, the overpayment appeal will fail. The judge will probably send the matter back to DWP to decide entitlement from date of move in to date of notification of move, with possibly suggestion about offsetting if entitlement exists.

At the point the appeal fails the DWP are likely to put recovery into place on existing UC claim. If the DWP then refuse entitlement that matter would need to be appealed, all the time recovery continuing unless DWP agree to hold recovery.

Better to make sure medusa80 has the right decisions in place and go forward from there.

So:  1) medusa80 needs to check if she has an actual decision stating whether entitlement to housing element exists at current property from date of moving in to the day before the current housing element starts.

If yes entitlement does exist: then medusa80 needs to request offsetting from DWP against current overpayment for sane period. If that offsetting is refused, I would still take that matter to appeal whether discretionary or not.

If no decision exists on entitlement to housing element from date of move in to day before current entitlement to housing element starts, then an explicit decision needs to be requested. Of the decision gives entitlement, then again request offsetting and take to appeal if refused.

If the decision on entitlement to housing element for the period in question is refused, then go through the process mandatory reconsideration and appeal and then request both matters - this appeal and overpayment appeal get looked at in same appeal as they are joined.

But again I wouldn't advise medusa80 does this alone, but gets an experienced adviser to help them who understands the issues.

The letter reads…

The overpayment occurred due to the housing costs not being

verified for over two years after you moved into the property. On your claim you was still registered as living

at (address removed)  and the money you received for housing each AP was for this address. Only verified housing can be paid and your current address wasn't verified until September 2023.

The housing costs are now verified for from the date you made the change on your claim 28/09/2023 (AP 01/09/23 - 30/09/23) and you will continue to receive the housing element going forward.

Implying that both decisions have been made.  They have accepted the new address from Sept 2023 and discarded any back dating of the address.  If they had accepted the back dating of the address the letter would have be written so.

I don't read it the same way, I read it as explanation of the overpayment and not necessarily a formal decision regarding entitlement at address b during that period - they do not say that they are unable to verify housing for that period, or that they refuse to, only that only verified housing can qualify for housing element. I accept that my reading may not be correct UC isn't my particular area. But therefore if you're correct a mandatory reconsideration of the decision not to verify address from date of move in and award housing element would be the way to go. And then appeal if that decision is refused, and then link the appeal to the overpayment appeal so both are looked at at the same time. 

“ I said could I back date a claim for new address and they said no. “

Then medusa80 needs to request a mandatory reconsideration of that decision and then appeal it and request appeal be heard at same time as overpayment appeal.