We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
New MOT before current one expirers?
Comments
-
Goudy said:Car_54 said:Goudy said:Mildly_Miffed said:Goudy said:
Contrary to popular belief, if you take it in early at any time and it fails, any existing MOT it may have still had is no longer valid.
It's not road worthy anymore and it will be logged on the system as such no matter how long you still had left on the original MOT.
It may well have failed *because* it's unroadworthy... and therefore be illegal, just as it would have been on the way to that test. But the old MOT remains valid until the expiry date.
If you don't believe me, go and look at https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history immediately after a fail with some time left on the old certificate. It will still show green, and still be legal.
There is also some ambiguity in the wording of most car insurance policies.
There will be a clause stating something along the lines your car must be in a roadworthy condition AND have a valid mot to use on the road.
Now if it failed a test early, it's obviously not in a roadworthy condition and may not be insured even through the MOT appears valid.
So why is it roadworthy if it fails 20 odd days before the end of the current test?
It's now changed, but it used to be that if you had a puncture on the way to your MOT and fitted your (legal) spacesaver you'd fail your MOT. The reason was because the MOT manual insisted that tyres on the same axle had to be the same size.
I had a fail last year with one dangerous (a tyre problem on the inside edge that I hadn't spotted). I immediately changed the tyre, but the MOT station couldn't fit me in for a retest for a few days. So my car was now roadworthy again, the old MOT was still in date but the most recent MOT was a dangerous fail. So I had a 'fail' on a (now) roadworthy car.0 -
marlot said:Goudy said:Car_54 said:Goudy said:Mildly_Miffed said:Goudy said:
Contrary to popular belief, if you take it in early at any time and it fails, any existing MOT it may have still had is no longer valid.
It's not road worthy anymore and it will be logged on the system as such no matter how long you still had left on the original MOT.
It may well have failed *because* it's unroadworthy... and therefore be illegal, just as it would have been on the way to that test. But the old MOT remains valid until the expiry date.
If you don't believe me, go and look at https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history immediately after a fail with some time left on the old certificate. It will still show green, and still be legal.
There is also some ambiguity in the wording of most car insurance policies.
There will be a clause stating something along the lines your car must be in a roadworthy condition AND have a valid mot to use on the road.
Now if it failed a test early, it's obviously not in a roadworthy condition and may not be insured even through the MOT appears valid.
So why is it roadworthy if it fails 20 odd days before the end of the current test?
I had a fail last year with one dangerous (a tyre problem on the inside edge that I hadn't spotted). I immediately changed the tyre, but the MOT station couldn't fit me in for a retest for a few days. So my car was now roadworthy again, the old MOT was still in date but the most recent MOT was a dangerous fail. So I had a 'fail' on a (now) roadworthy car.
I was trying to make the point that just because there is time left on the MOT ticket doesn't mean it's still usable on the road.
The way some earlier posts may have read is that it may have failed an early test but it's still OK to use it until the original test runs out without repair.
As far as the government rules go, yes it still has ticket left on it.
But they state that even though it may have a current MOT it doesn't make it road worthy.
When it comes to the law and it's roadworthy, then no. You'd be hard pressed to argue it was unless you had evidence it was repaired.
As stated earlier, ignorance of an offence is no excuse, but actually knowing and choosing to do nothing about it, well that certainly isn't going to help you if the cause arises.
As for motor insurance, read your policy documentation including the small print.
Every policy I have ever had has stated the vehicle most be roadworthy AND have a valid MOT if required.
This is from my insurance.
What are my obligations?
• You must give complete and accurate answers to any questions we may ask you at the start of and when amending or renewing your policy. You must update this information if it changes. This includes: ◦ updating your address or occupation, ◦ claim or conviction details, ◦ driver changes, ◦ changes or modifications to your car or how you use it.
• You must make sure the car is taxed and roadworthy including that it has, if required, a valid MOT certificate and take all precautions to prevent any injury loss or damage.
• You must pay the premium or premium instalments on time.
• You must co-operate with us if a claim is made on your policy0 -
Goudy said:marlot said:Goudy said:Car_54 said:Goudy said:Mildly_Miffed said:Goudy said:
Contrary to popular belief, if you take it in early at any time and it fails, any existing MOT it may have still had is no longer valid.
It's not road worthy anymore and it will be logged on the system as such no matter how long you still had left on the original MOT.
It may well have failed *because* it's unroadworthy... and therefore be illegal, just as it would have been on the way to that test. But the old MOT remains valid until the expiry date.
If you don't believe me, go and look at https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history immediately after a fail with some time left on the old certificate. It will still show green, and still be legal.
There is also some ambiguity in the wording of most car insurance policies.
There will be a clause stating something along the lines your car must be in a roadworthy condition AND have a valid mot to use on the road.
Now if it failed a test early, it's obviously not in a roadworthy condition and may not be insured even through the MOT appears valid.
So why is it roadworthy if it fails 20 odd days before the end of the current test?
I had a fail last year with one dangerous (a tyre problem on the inside edge that I hadn't spotted). I immediately changed the tyre, but the MOT station couldn't fit me in for a retest for a few days. So my car was now roadworthy again, the old MOT was still in date but the most recent MOT was a dangerous fail. So I had a 'fail' on a (now) roadworthy car.2 -
marlot said:Goudy said:Car_54 said:Goudy said:Mildly_Miffed said:Goudy said:
Contrary to popular belief, if you take it in early at any time and it fails, any existing MOT it may have still had is no longer valid.
It's not road worthy anymore and it will be logged on the system as such no matter how long you still had left on the original MOT.
It may well have failed *because* it's unroadworthy... and therefore be illegal, just as it would have been on the way to that test. But the old MOT remains valid until the expiry date.
If you don't believe me, go and look at https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history immediately after a fail with some time left on the old certificate. It will still show green, and still be legal.
There is also some ambiguity in the wording of most car insurance policies.
There will be a clause stating something along the lines your car must be in a roadworthy condition AND have a valid mot to use on the road.
Now if it failed a test early, it's obviously not in a roadworthy condition and may not be insured even through the MOT appears valid.
So why is it roadworthy if it fails 20 odd days before the end of the current test?
It's now changed, but it used to be that if you had a puncture on the way to your MOT and fitted your (legal) spacesaver you'd fail your MOT. The reason was because the MOT manual insisted that tyres on the same axle had to be the same size.1 -
Goudy said:Mildly_Miffed said:Goudy said:
Contrary to popular belief, if you take it in early at any time and it fails, any existing MOT it may have still had is no longer valid.
It's not road worthy anymore and it will be logged on the system as such no matter how long you still had left on the original MOT.
It may well have failed *because* it's unroadworthy... and therefore be illegal, just as it would have been on the way to that test. But the old MOT remains valid until the expiry date.
If you don't believe me, go and look at https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history immediately after a fail with some time left on the old certificate. It will still show green, and still be legal.
...So for an example, you may get a Major Fault if two out of your three brake lights are not working and a Dangerous Fault if all brake lights aren't working.
Out on the road, the fault is it is in a Dangerous condition for both.
There is no difference between the two different MOT category fails in this situation.
...
Can you give a link to where in the law it says that, please?0 -
jimjames said:There is also some ambiguity in the wording of most car insurance policies.
There will be a clause stating something along the lines your car must be in a roadworthy condition AND have a valid mot to use on the road.
And, of course, if there's time left on the previous test, you still have one, intervening fail or not.1 -
Every policy I have ever had has stated the vehicle most be roadworthy AND have a valid MOT if required.
And any insurer who tried to repudiate liability solely on the basis that the car had no current MoT would almost certainly see their attempt fail.
Insurers must show that there is a connection between the failure by the policyholder to comply with a policy condition and the cause of the incident. Having no MoT (or tax for that matter) does not, by itself, make a car dangerous or unroadworthy and makes it no more or less likely to be involved in an accident, be stolen or catch fire. It may be perfectly sound but the owner has simply failed to have it tested.
The insurers may make an adjustment to the payout in the event of a total loss as the vehicle’s value may be reduced. But they cannot deny liability entirely. In the event of third party claims they cannot refuse to meet a claim even if the vehicle is unroadworthy.
Here’s a case handled by the Ombudsman, illustrating this:
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-3123029.pdf
For example, as in this case, a condition of the policy is that the vehicle is roadworthy. If an un-roadworthy car is involved in an accident, the insurer can only decline the claim if it can show the issues with the car would have been picked up by a MOT and these issues were connected to the accident1 -
prowla said:Goudy said:Mildly_Miffed said:Goudy said:
Contrary to popular belief, if you take it in early at any time and it fails, any existing MOT it may have still had is no longer valid.
It's not road worthy anymore and it will be logged on the system as such no matter how long you still had left on the original MOT.
It may well have failed *because* it's unroadworthy... and therefore be illegal, just as it would have been on the way to that test. But the old MOT remains valid until the expiry date.
If you don't believe me, go and look at https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history immediately after a fail with some time left on the old certificate. It will still show green, and still be legal.
...So for an example, you may get a Major Fault if two out of your three brake lights are not working and a Dangerous Fault if all brake lights aren't working.
Out on the road, the fault is it is in a Dangerous condition for both.
There is no difference between the two different MOT category fails in this situation.
...
Can you give a link to where in the law it says that, please?A person is guilty of an offence if he uses, or causes or permits someone to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when—
(a) the condition of the motor vehicle or trailer, or of its accessories or equipment, or
(b) the purpose for which it is used, or
(c) the number of passengers carried by it, or the manner in which they are carried, or
(d) the weight, position or distribution of its load, or the manner in which it is secured,
is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person.”
The criteria is objective by context. So for example, it might be considered less serious in daylight in a 20 mph zone but it might be considered more serious on a motorway at night in fog. Though the offence is still the offence.
As for what constitutes a vehicle in a dangerous condition we're at DVSA's doorstep, who just so happen are responsible for assessing the road worthiness of vehicles through MOT testing. I doubt there are many differences in standards of unroadworthiness and MOT, but if anyone would care to point to the them?
It's not unheard of for certain stops to include DVSA officers, particularly for HGV, Vans, Coaches and Buses, they are after all, the experts that set the standards.
0 -
TooManyPoints said:Every policy I have ever had has stated the vehicle most be roadworthy AND have a valid MOT if required.
And any insurer who tried to repudiate liability solely on the basis that the car had no current MoT would almost certainly see their attempt fail.
Insurers must show that there is a connection between the failure by the policyholder to comply with a policy condition and the cause of the incident. Having no MoT (or tax for that matter) does not, by itself, make a car dangerous or unroadworthy and makes it no more or less likely to be involved in an accident, be stolen or catch fire. It may be perfectly sound but the owner has simply failed to have it tested.
The insurers may make an adjustment to the payout in the event of a total loss as the vehicle’s value may be reduced. But they cannot deny liability entirely. In the event of third party claims they cannot refuse to meet a claim even if the vehicle is unroadworthy.
Here’s a case handled by the Ombudsman, illustrating this:
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-3123029.pdf
For example, as in this case, a condition of the policy is that the vehicle is roadworthy. If an un-roadworthy car is involved in an accident, the insurer can only decline the claim if it can show the issues with the car would have been picked up by a MOT and these issues were connected to the accident
I gave no other meaning to the statement that is written on my and probably everyone else's car insurance documents that you must make sure your car is in roadworthy condition.
What happens if a claim is made when/if it's proven to be in an unroadworthy is between you and your insurer. With experience of making a couple of total loss claims over the years, I would hazard a guess a claims adjuster/assessor would look into the condition of the vehicle by using various means.
Which may or may not include physical and documentation examination.
0 -
Car_54 said:Goudy said:Car_54 said:Goudy said:Mildly_Miffed said:Goudy said:
Contrary to popular belief, if you take it in early at any time and it fails, any existing MOT it may have still had is no longer valid.
It's not road worthy anymore and it will be logged on the system as such no matter how long you still had left on the original MOT.
It may well have failed *because* it's unroadworthy... and therefore be illegal, just as it would have been on the way to that test. But the old MOT remains valid until the expiry date.
If you don't believe me, go and look at https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history immediately after a fail with some time left on the old certificate. It will still show green, and still be legal.
There is also some ambiguity in the wording of most car insurance policies.
There will be a clause stating something along the lines your car must be in a roadworthy condition AND have a valid mot to use on the road.
Now if it failed a test early, it's obviously not in a roadworthy condition and may not be insured even through the MOT appears valid.
So why is it roadworthy if it fails 20 odd days before the end of the current test?
It does make it an offence to use a vehicle in a dangerous condition. A missing passenger seatbelt, or indeed seat, does not make a car dangerous, unless there is actually a passenger.
Road Traffic Act 1991
Surely you didn't think there was no law what so ever relating to the roadworthiness of a vehicle on the public roads?0
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply

Categories
- All Categories
- 351.9K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.5K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 454.1K Spending & Discounts
- 244.9K Work, Benefits & Business
- 600.4K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177.4K Life & Family
- 258.6K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards