New MOT before current one expirers?

Mildly_Miffed

Car_54 said:

MOT failure does NOT mean a car is "obviously" not "roadworthy". There are major faults which do not in themselves make a vehicle dangerous in law.

A failed early test does not make the original MOT "appear valid" it IS valid.

Indeed.

The easy sense-check is obviously something along the lines of...

You take your car for an MOT. It has four weeks left on the old test.
It fails. Let's say it fails on a tyre.
That tyre is replaced, but the car is not retested.

Is it legal to use?

@Goudy says no.
I say yes, as do you.
The law agrees with us.

Now, let's expand that slightly...
Instead of a tyre, the car fails on a rear seatbelt, and a 13pin towing socket fault that does not affect the vehicle lights.
There is no occupant in that rear seat, and there is no trailer connected.
Is it legal and roadworthy? It would be hard to argue that it was not. Yet @Goudy is saying exactly that.

Roadworthiness is totally separate from the test. If the vehicle's in too poor a condition to be legal to drive back from the test, it was illegal to drive it TO the test. Also, whether or not the driver is aware of the condition of the vehicle is no defence.

Goudy

I didn't say no, I wrote until it's repaired.
The MOT is only a test of the moment. The car passes or fails at the time it is presented.

Ultimately, it's the drivers responsibility to make sure the vehicle is in a roadworthy condition.

If they know it isn't roadworthy it doesn't give the driver the right to continue using it without repairing the fault/s no matter how much MOT is left on the ticket.

All MOT fails effect road worthiness in some way, that's the nature of the test. You might not agree with the way the test is, but that doesn't matter, we have what we have.

As for the examples of seatbelts and towbars, they are fitted so must comply.
Plenty get stopped driving with bald tyres by the police, but they have yet to slam into the back of someone else on a wet road because of their bald tyres. You can't say I didn't need tread at the time can you.

So it is wrong to suggest it's perfectly fine to continue using a vehicle on the road if it has failed when presented early until it has been repaired.

As said, whether or not the driver is aware is no defence.
But if they present early and it does fail, they are well aware of the vehicles condition and have made a choice to continue using it with whatever faults it has.

Mildly_Miffed

Goudy said:

I didn't say no, I wrote until it's repaired.

Great, so we're all in agreement that the failure of a new test has precisely ZERO effect on the validity of the old one.

So when you said...

Goudy said:

Contrary to popular belief, if you take it in early at any time and it fails, any existing MOT it may have still had is no longer valid.  

Goudy

Yes that's right.
The vehicle is only valid if it's roadworthy.

Car_54

Goudy said:

Car_54 said:

Goudy said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Goudy said:

Contrary to popular belief, if you take it in early at any time and it fails, any existing MOT it may have still had is no longer valid.  
It's not road worthy anymore and it will be logged on the system as such no matter how long you still had left on the original MOT.

That IS the incorrect "popular belief".

It may well have failed *because* it's unroadworthy... and therefore be illegal, just as it would have been on the way to that test. But the old MOT remains valid until the expiry date.

If you don't believe me, go and look at https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history immediately after a fail with some time left on the old certificate. It will still show green, and still be legal.

There is also some ambiguity in the wording of most car insurance policies.
There will be a clause stating something along the lines your car must be in a roadworthy condition AND have a valid mot to use on the road.
Now if it failed a test early, it's obviously not in a roadworthy condition and may not be insured even through the MOT appears valid.

MOT failure does NOT mean a car is "obviously" not "roadworthy". There are major faults which do not in themselves make a vehicle dangerous in law.

You need to explain that, perhaps use an example because as far as I understand it, if a car fails at the end of it's current MOT, it's no longer roadworthy until it's repaired and retested.

So why is it roadworthy if it fails 20 odd days before the end of the current test?

The law is not concerned with "roadworthyness" (except when selling or supplying a vehicle), unless you can find a law I've missed.

It does make it an offence to use a vehicle in a dangerous condition. A missing passenger seatbelt, or indeed seat, does not make a car dangerous, unless there is actually a passenger.

Mildly_Miffed

Goudy said:

Yes that's right.
The vehicle is only valid if it's roadworthy.

Nobody has said otherwise.

But that has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it's taken for a test, and whether or not the previous test had any time left.

jimjames

Goudy said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Goudy said:

Contrary to popular belief, if you take it in early at any time and it fails, any existing MOT it may have still had is no longer valid.  
It's not road worthy anymore and it will be logged on the system as such no matter how long you still had left on the original MOT.

That IS the incorrect "popular belief".

It may well have failed *because* it's unroadworthy... and therefore be illegal, just as it would have been on the way to that test. But the old MOT remains valid until the expiry date.

If you don't believe me, go and look at https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history immediately after a fail with some time left on the old certificate. It will still show green, and still be legal.

There is also some ambiguity in the wording of most car insurance policies.
There will be a clause stating something along the lines your car must be in a roadworthy condition AND have a valid mot to use on the road.

I'm not aware of that clause in any insurance policy I've had but there may be some I guess. If that was really the case then you wouldn't be able to take your car for an MOT once it has expired but it's not really ambiguity - you're either covered or not. I've driven on the road entirely legally with no MOT and no tax but fully insured.

TooManyPoints

The question was this:

Is it possible to have your vehicle MOT tested before the current MOT expirers?

The answer to that is "yes". You can have an MoT test when ever you like. 

marlot

Goudy said:

Car_54 said:

Goudy said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Goudy said:

Contrary to popular belief, if you take it in early at any time and it fails, any existing MOT it may have still had is no longer valid.  
It's not road worthy anymore and it will be logged on the system as such no matter how long you still had left on the original MOT.

That IS the incorrect "popular belief".

It may well have failed *because* it's unroadworthy... and therefore be illegal, just as it would have been on the way to that test. But the old MOT remains valid until the expiry date.

If you don't believe me, go and look at https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history immediately after a fail with some time left on the old certificate. It will still show green, and still be legal.

There is also some ambiguity in the wording of most car insurance policies.
There will be a clause stating something along the lines your car must be in a roadworthy condition AND have a valid mot to use on the road.
Now if it failed a test early, it's obviously not in a roadworthy condition and may not be insured even through the MOT appears valid.

MOT failure does NOT mean a car is "obviously" not "roadworthy". There are major faults which do not in themselves make a vehicle dangerous in law.

You need to explain that, perhaps use an example because as far as I understand it, if a car fails at the end of it's current MOT, it's no longer roadworthy until it's repaired and retested.

So why is it roadworthy if it fails 20 odd days before the end of the current test?

There can be some strange features of the system. 

It's now changed, but it used to be that if you had a puncture on the way to your MOT and fitted your (legal) spacesaver you'd fail your MOT.  The reason was because the MOT manual insisted that tyres on the same axle had to be the same size.

I had a fail last year with one dangerous (a tyre problem on the inside edge that I hadn't spotted).  I immediately changed the tyre, but the MOT station couldn't fit me in for a retest for a few days.  So my car was now roadworthy again, the old MOT was still in date but the most recent MOT was a dangerous fail.  So I had a 'fail' on a (now) roadworthy car.

Goudy

marlot said:

Goudy said:

Car_54 said:

Goudy said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Goudy said:

Contrary to popular belief, if you take it in early at any time and it fails, any existing MOT it may have still had is no longer valid.  
It's not road worthy anymore and it will be logged on the system as such no matter how long you still had left on the original MOT.

That IS the incorrect "popular belief".

It may well have failed *because* it's unroadworthy... and therefore be illegal, just as it would have been on the way to that test. But the old MOT remains valid until the expiry date.

If you don't believe me, go and look at https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history immediately after a fail with some time left on the old certificate. It will still show green, and still be legal.

There is also some ambiguity in the wording of most car insurance policies.
There will be a clause stating something along the lines your car must be in a roadworthy condition AND have a valid mot to use on the road.
Now if it failed a test early, it's obviously not in a roadworthy condition and may not be insured even through the MOT appears valid.

MOT failure does NOT mean a car is "obviously" not "roadworthy". There are major faults which do not in themselves make a vehicle dangerous in law.

You need to explain that, perhaps use an example because as far as I understand it, if a car fails at the end of it's current MOT, it's no longer roadworthy until it's repaired and retested.

So why is it roadworthy if it fails 20 odd days before the end of the current test?

I had a fail last year with one dangerous (a tyre problem on the inside edge that I hadn't spotted).  I immediately changed the tyre, but the MOT station couldn't fit me in for a retest for a few days.  So my car was now roadworthy again, the old MOT was still in date but the most recent MOT was a dangerous fail.  So I had a 'fail' on a (now) roadworthy car.

Yes that is right. You made it roadworthy again

I was trying to make the point that just because there is time left on the MOT ticket doesn't mean it's still usable on the road.

The way some earlier posts may have read is that it may have failed an early test but it's still OK to use it until the original test runs out without repair.

As far as the government rules go, yes it still has ticket left on it.
But they state that even though it may have a current MOT it doesn't make it road worthy.

When it comes to the law and it's roadworthy, then no. You'd be hard pressed to argue it was unless you had evidence it was repaired.

As stated earlier, ignorance of an offence is no excuse, but actually knowing and choosing to do nothing about it, well that certainly isn't going to help you if the cause arises.


As for motor insurance, read your policy documentation including the small print.
Every policy I have ever had has stated the vehicle most be roadworthy AND have a valid MOT if required. 

This is from my insurance.
What are my obligations?
• You must give complete and accurate answers to any questions we may ask you at the start of and when amending or renewing your policy. You must update this information if it changes. This includes: ◦ updating your address or occupation, ◦ claim or conviction details, ◦ driver changes, ◦ changes or modifications to your car or how you use it.
• You must make sure the car is taxed and roadworthy including that it has, if required, a valid MOT certificate and take all precautions to prevent any injury loss or damage.
• You must pay the premium or premium instalments on time.
• You must co-operate with us if a claim is made on your policy