Changing executor of will from a solicitor

Grassisgreen35

But she doesn’t need a new Will she just needs to change the executor of the Will which seems like such a simple change? She’s not changing who gets what, this isn’t some complex high value estate that is being dealt with.

Grassisgreen35

Yes it would just be a codicil to change the executor of the Will, no other changes at all. I would say that the only undue influence came from the solicitors who advised her to use them as an executor at the grand old age of 87 with a uncomplex low value estate.

Who would challenge the legitimacy of the codicil of the executor change, the solicitors in question who got removed? I can’t imagine this would be in the solicitors interest especially given their lack of transparency on their executor pricing, literally it only includes an hourly rate of the different solicitor seniority rates and this does not state how it applies to their executor role nor even an estimate as to the costs of what she might be entering into for them to take on this role.

user1977

Grassisgreen35 said:

I can’t imagine this would be in the solicitors interest especially given their lack of transparency on their executor pricing, literally it only includes an hourly rate of the different solicitor seniority rates and this does not state how it applies to their executor role nor even an estimate as to the costs of what she might be entering into for them to take on this role.

I ask again, how do you think they can give any useful guidance about their fees for an executry when they have no idea when the client is going to die or how big or complex their estate will be at that stage?

Grassisgreen35

Well she never had a big complex estate to begin with, 1 low value house under 200k and 2 savings accounts is it, that is as complex as it has ever been for her. She was well into her 80’s before a Will was written, so it still doesn’t sound like given her circumstances she received well informed advice. @user1977 do you work for a solicitors or something! Plus in 2018 enacted a change in legislation requiring information to be published on their website on charges and I can’t see in the information provided they even did this, but in any case it is somewhat irrelevant for a 87 year old without a computer… so I think you are wrong given the current requirements to say that the solicitors can’t possibly give any advice at all on the cost of being an executor.

OldMusicGuy

In my experience, solicitors are nothing but an additional cost and delay in getting probate sorted. The last one we used dragged out an estate for nearly two years by being unresponsive and generally useless. My FiL had a will that named all his children and a solicitor as executors. This would have been a nightmare as one of the children is irresponsible and has a bad relationship with everyone. So bad that my partner refused to be an executor, which made my FiL rethink. He dropped the solicitor (after discussion with us) and made the responsible children (who get on well) his executors.

Net result - his simple estate (just like your relative's) was dealt with simply and quickly after he died (recently). We did probate online, it was very easy, and we got probate granted in 10 days. Using a solicitor would have added cost and potential delays for no value. For example, if the solicitor is executor, only they can answer questions relating to probate, which will cost you time and money.

IMO of the executors get on well and the estate is simple you should avoid involving solicitors as executors. I will say that we used solicitors to write the will and they did a superb job - the well-written will made dealing with probate much easier.   

Grassisgreen35

Yes this is our fear, so her Will is written by the same solicitors so in that sense I hope it’s well written, although I have to admit reading it from a layman’s point of view I don’t think it is well written but I guess they can only go off what the client declares they wanted, but having specific cash values listed for some of the beneficiaries with the remainder to be split between siblings seems a somewhat odd way of putting it together vs % of what remains at the point of death. But old minds think differently! Anyway I think we will just help her use an online solicitor to draft a minor codicil change then hand it to her current solicitors to keep on file & that takes out the ridiculous in person meetings that no one has time to organise these days whilst still ensuring the codicil does do what it is supposed to & remove the solicitors as executor.

OldMusicGuy

Grassisgreen35 said:

Yes this is our fear, so her Will is written by the same solicitors so in that sense I hope it’s well written, although I have to admit reading it from a layman’s point of view I don’t think it is well written but I guess they can only go off what the client declares they wanted, but having specific cash values listed for some of the beneficiaries with the remainder to be split between siblings seems a somewhat odd way of putting it together vs % of what remains at the point of death. But old minds think differently! Anyway I think we will just help her use an online solicitor to draft a minor codicil change then hand it to her current solicitors to keep on file & that takes out the ridiculous in person meetings that no one has time to organise these days whilst still ensuring the codicil does do what it is supposed to & remove the solicitors as executor.

Oh dear. My FiL did the same (initially). He was doling specific amounts out to various relatives and leaving the rest to his children. He then had to go in to self-funded care so the value of his estate dropped considerably. We explained to him that the longer he stayed in care, the greater the likelihood his children would be left with very little, because specific bequests have to be satisfied first. He was unaware of this and once he realised the implication he changed his will to split it into %age pots to be split between his children and the nominated relatives.

Most people don't realise how wills have to be settled and the implications of leaving monetary bequests.

Keep_pedalling

Grassisgreen35 said:

Yes this is our fear, so her Will is written by the same solicitors so in that sense I hope it’s well written, although I have to admit reading it from a layman’s point of view I don’t think it is well written but I guess they can only go off what the client declares they wanted, but having specific cash values listed for some of the beneficiaries with the remainder to be split between siblings seems a somewhat odd way of putting it together vs % of what remains at the point of death. But old minds think differently! Anyway I think we will just help her use an online solicitor to draft a minor codicil change then hand it to her current solicitors to keep on file & that takes out the ridiculous in person meetings that no one has time to organise these days whilst still ensuring the codicil does do what it is supposed to & remove the solicitors as executor.

It is not a particularly odd thing for a will to contain especially if the cash gifts are relatively small in relation to the size of the estate. Our wills have some to minor beneficiaries.. Gifts to charities are also monetary values rather than percentages. This is nothing to do with old minds thinking differently. 

The other downside of cash gifts is that they can be whittled down in real value by inflation but whatever way you do things wills should be reviewed every few years (or after major events  such as the death of a spouse, executor or major beneficiary). Inflation has been particularly high since your GM made her will so it is likely that a new will is more appropriate than a codicil even if she (and it is entirely her choice not yours) wants to keep fixed values for minor beneficiaries rather than change to percentages.

user1977

Keep_pedalling said:

Grassisgreen35 said:

Yes this is our fear, so her Will is written by the same solicitors so in that sense I hope it’s well written, although I have to admit reading it from a layman’s point of view I don’t think it is well written but I guess they can only go off what the client declares they wanted, but having specific cash values listed for some of the beneficiaries with the remainder to be split between siblings seems a somewhat odd way of putting it together vs % of what remains at the point of death. But old minds think differently! Anyway I think we will just help her use an online solicitor to draft a minor codicil change then hand it to her current solicitors to keep on file & that takes out the ridiculous in person meetings that no one has time to organise these days whilst still ensuring the codicil does do what it is supposed to & remove the solicitors as executor.

It is not a particularly odd thing for a will to contain especially if the cash gifts are relatively small in relation to the size of the estate. Our wills have some to minor beneficiaries.. Gifts to charities are also monetary values rather than percentages. This is nothing to do with old minds thinking differently. 

Yes, if you do them all as percentages then it makes everybody a residuary beneficiary, and then the executors have to consider consulting with them all about anything which affects the overall net value of the estate.

Keep_pedalling

Grassisgreen35 said:

Yes it would just be a codicil to change the executor of the Will, no other changes at all. I would say that the only undue influence came from the solicitors who advised her to use them as an executor at the grand old age of 87 with a uncomplex low value estate.

Who would challenge the legitimacy of the codicil of the executor change, the solicitors in question who got removed? I can’t imagine this would be in the solicitors interest especially given their lack of transparency on their executor pricing, literally it only includes an hourly rate of the different solicitor seniority rates and this does not state how it applies to their executor role nor even an estimate as to the costs of what she might be entering into for them to take on this role.

You can’t just present a codicil to the solicitor on her death, codicils must be kept with the will.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/wills-and-probate/content/102437#:~:text=The%20witnesses%20do%20not%20need,can%20invalidate%20the%20will%20itself.