UC migration from TC self employed questions

kazzyb123

My partner is self employed,
1. when we migrate to UC is it correct that he has to fill in 12 months of income figures going backwards from the claim date in his UC journal?
2. We have end of yr figures for 2024 and migrate mid June what will tax credits ask for? will it be renewal as as usual for yr end 2024 and then monthly figures for 6/4/24-end of June?
3. can i start filling the claim in now and not send it until June? can it be saved and then go back to it?

thanks

ElwoodBlues

1) No, not unless they ask for it. Not sure why they would, except perhaps if they think he might not genuinely be gainfully self employed.

2) Tax credits will do an in year finalisation at the point you start your UC claim. See the section on self employed income here: https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/universal-credit/guidance/existing-tax-credit-claimants/finalising-tax-credit-claims/   You might need to engage your accountant to help work out appropriate figures.

3) You get 28 days from creating your account to submitting your initial claim. It's not particularly arduous, you should be able to complete it from start to finish in a few hours.

UC and self employment can be a real headache, you (or perhaps your partner) should really do as much background reading on how it all works before you commence your claim. In the simplest terms, you'll need to submit monthly income and expense statements to show the self employed earnings.

Spoonie_Turtle

ElwoodBlues said:

1) No, not unless they ask for it. Not sure why they would, except perhaps if they think he might not genuinely be gainfully self employed.

I thought they did (as a routine question) to check whether claimants are exempt from the benefits cap.

huckster

Correct, there is a to do list item to confirm previous earnings on new claims, but this only relates to benefit cap exemption. If it is not completed within first month of the claim, it automatically gets deleted. Just means that if the benefit cap is relevant, they won't receive exemption from this due to previous earnings.

kazzyb123

Spoonie_Turtle said:

ElwoodBlues said:

1) No, not unless they ask for it. Not sure why they would, except perhaps if they think he might not genuinely be gainfully self employed.

I thought they did (as a routine question) to check whether claimants are exempt from the benefits cap.

This is what I had read too, the problem is the 12 months of figures will be june-june and i don’t know what they are! It looks like having to go back through all of the receipts and invoices for 12 months and adding it all up.

It seems to be completely different to the figures from the accountant because the what he can deduct is different to what can be deducted for UC

Im really too i’ll to deal with this 

Thanks for the reply at least now we have time to get the figures together and i know i don’t have to finish the application in one day

kazzyb123

@Spoonie_Turtle do you know which expenses can be deducted for UC please? I think it’s different tax deductions
Also if the TC claim ends in June will the in year finalisation be for april 2023-june2024 or will there be a separate annual renewal for april 2023-april 2024 then an in year finalisation for april 2024-june 2024

Hope that makes sense 

Im basically just trying to get all of the figures ready that will be asked for because i have to pace myself doing things 

ElwoodBlues

kazzyb123 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

ElwoodBlues said:

1) No, not unless they ask for it. Not sure why they would, except perhaps if they think he might not genuinely be gainfully self employed.

I thought they did (as a routine question) to check whether claimants are exempt from the benefits cap.

This is what I had read too, the problem is the 12 months of figures will be june-june and i don’t know what they are! It looks like having to go back through all of the receipts and invoices for 12 months and adding it all up.

It seems to be completely different to the figures from the accountant because the what he can deduct is different to what can be deducted for UC

Im really too i’ll to deal with this 

Thanks for the reply at least now we have time to get the figures together and i know i don’t have to finish the application in one day

Hadn't realised it was needed for the benefit cap exemption. So yes, if you want/need to take advantage of that exemption then you will have to supply net income figure. You should have 80% of it from your accounts to Y/E April 2024 - just a case of splitting out income and expenditure for April to June 2023 and adding in April to June 2024 instead. If you're not in a position to work it through yourself, then your accountant could probably do it relatively easily depending on how your books are kept (obviously you'd have to pay them for doing so, but it's mostly work that you'll be paying them to do anyway). I don't think you need to worry too much about UC deductible expenses for historical accounts, would expect those can be done on the accounting basis you've been using historically. But going forward you will have to submit detailed income and expenditure on a monthly basis (for each AP). So you might as well spend these 3 months practicing for it. It's likely that you'll want to consult your accountant about what's involved/required. And it may be that you can work together and it reduces their workload for your annual accounts.

It should really be your partner's responsibility to deal with his self employment figures anyway, not yours.

Spoonie_Turtle

kazzyb123 said:

@Spoonie_Turtle do you know which expenses can be deducted for UC please? I think it’s different tax deductions
Also if the TC claim ends in June will the in year finalisation be for april 2023-june2024 or will there be a separate annual renewal for april 2023-april 2024 then an in year finalisation for april 2024-june 2024

Hope that makes sense 

Im basically just trying to get all of the figures ready that will be asked for because i have to pace myself doing things 

I don't know, sorry.  Tax Credits are well outside my knowledge.  Others here will know.

For UC expenses I found this via Google https://www.gov.uk//government/publications/universal-credit-and-self-employment-quick-guide/business-expenses-you-can-report-to-universal-credit-if-you-are-self-employed

See also https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66155003eb8a1bb45e05e30f/admh4.pdf
The section from "Permitted expenses H4197 - H4329"

kazzyb123

huckster said:

Correct, there is a to do list item to confirm previous earnings on new claims, but this only relates to benefit cap exemption. If it is not completed within first month of the claim, it automatically gets deleted. Just means that if the benefit cap is relevant, they won't receive exemption from this due to previous earnings.

Thanks for the reply, we will move to UC on 19/6 will we be asked for calendar month figures for the benefit cap 12 months or will it be 19th-18th of each month?

When we have moved to UC will the income and expenses figures be from 19/6-18/7 etc or be by calendar month?

poppy12345

They will just want to know your monthly earnings amount for the benefit cap. When you claim UC on 19th that means your assessment periods will be 19th to 18th of every month and you would need to report earnings and expenses on the 18th of every month, which is the last day of each AP. 

kazzyb123

poppy12345 said:

They will just want to know your monthly earnings amount for the benefit cap. When you claim UC on 19th that means your assessment periods will be 19th to 18th of every month and you would need to report earnings and expenses on the 18th of every month, which is the last day of each AP. 

So to make it easier if I apply on 1/6/24 would my assessment period then be 1-30th or 31st of the months depending on how many days in the month, so basically per calendar month?

Sorry if I’m being stupid but the benefit cap figures are they per calendar month? 1st-30th for example