Overpaid Private pension on deceased person

Lorrainep1234

We have received a letter of over payment on a private pension Phoenix Life, they are requesting a payment is paid back around £300 we informed them of the deceased person straight away. do we need to pay this back he dies in November 2022. thanks

leonard_455

I recommend reaching out to Phoenix Life again, perhaps asking for clarification or guidance on how to proceed given the circumstances.

When someone passes away, any overpayments made to them should ideally be returned, but it's essential to verify the details with Phoenix Life. Sometimes, overpayments can occur due to administrative errors, and the company may have specific procedures for handling such situations, especially in the case of a deceased account holder.

Fruitcake

You should also ask for this thread to be moved to the Pensions part of the forum as you are currently posting on the motoring, parking forum.

Hoenir

Lorrainep1234 said:

We have received a letter of over payment on a private pension Phoenix Life, they are requesting a payment is paid back around £300 we informed them of the deceased person straight away. do we need to pay this back he dies in November 2022. thanks

Who were the executors of the estate? 

Lorrainep1234

Myself and brother do we need to pay it back or is it their fault as mum cant afford to pay the money back thanks

Brie

First find out why the overpayment occurred.  Their fault somehow?  You notified them immediately but a payment had already been put in place that they didn't think to rectify at the time?   Did they send anything previously that said that the account was closed and no further money was to be paid in either direction?

Would the estate have been able to repay the money at the time or did everything go to mom?  And assets only rather than cash?

I know £300 doesn't seem like a lot of money to some people but if there's no cash there's no cash.  Once they prove that the money is owed then I would suggest there be some reduction due to the estate having already been distributed and for the massive delay in advising anyone. 

If that doesn't help then I would suggest that mom agree a plan to pay them back.  It might be over 18 months - similar to the time since the death  - or if might be at a rate of £1 a month, either way with no interest accruing.  

dunstonh

Myself and brother do we need to pay it back or is it their fault as mum cant afford to pay the money back thanks

Why do you think there is a fault?

Overpayments are commonplace.  Especially with annuities that are payable in advance and without proportion (which is the most common method).

What did the executor do?  you say they notified them but what happened to the acknowledgement letter from Phoenix that would state would happen next and typically includes the amount of any overpayment that needs to be repaid?

Marcon

Brie said:

First find out why the overpayment occurred.  Their fault somehow?  You notified them immediately but a payment had already been put in place that they didn't think to rectify at the time?   Did they send anything previously that said that the account was closed and no further money was to be paid in either direction?

Would the estate have been able to repay the money at the time or did everything go to mom?  And assets only rather than cash?

I know £300 doesn't seem like a lot of money to some people but if there's no cash there's no cash.  Once they prove that the money is owed then I would suggest there be some reduction due to the estate having already been distributed and for the massive delay in advising anyone. 

If that doesn't help then I would suggest that mom agree a plan to pay them back.  It might be over 18 months - similar to the time since the death  - or if might be at a rate of £1 a month, either way with no interest accruing.  

This isn't a 'massive delay' - especially if the payments are less frequent than monthly (very small annuities can be paid quarterly, six-monthly or even annually).

As dunstonh has pointed out:

dunstonh said:

Myself and brother do we need to pay it back or is it their fault as mum cant afford to pay the money back thanks

Why do you think there is a fault?

Overpayments are commonplace.  Especially with annuities that are payable in advance and without proportion (which is the most common method).

What did the executor do?  you say they notified them but what happened to the acknowledgement letter from Phoenix that would state would happen next and typically includes the amount of any overpayment that needs to be repaid?

It's the responsibility of the executors to ensure all debts are settled before assets are distributed, so the position of OP's mother isn't going to cut any ice, I'm afraid.

sheramber

Brie said:

First find out why the overpayment occurred.  Their fault somehow?  You notified them immediately but a payment had already been put in place that they didn't think to rectify at the time?   Did they send anything previously that said that the account was closed and no further money was to be paid in either direction?

Would the estate have been able to repay the money at the time or did everything go to mom?  And assets only rather than cash?

I know £300 doesn't seem like a lot of money to some people but if there's no cash there's no cash.  Once they prove that the money is owed then I would suggest there be some reduction due to the estate having already been distributed and for the massive delay in advising anyone. 

If that doesn't help then I would suggest that mom agree a plan to pay them back.  It might be over 18 months - similar to the time since the death  - or if might be at a rate of £1 a month, either way with no interest accruing.  

I thought it is the executors who were responsible if they have distributed the estate without all debt being settled.

MallyGirl

OP and her brother were the executors according to the 5th post

artyboy

I'm with Brie on this one - yes we on this board are a bit more au fait with the sometimes glacial pace of pensions administration. But for a typical lay executor, to be told that there was an overpayment, 18 months after notifying the Pension company of death, is not IMO reasonable. 

The estate has been distributed, there is no money left to pay the £300, as an executor I'd be telling the Pension co that they had more than enough time to make their claim, now it's too late. Obviously 6 years for legal claims etc... but I wonder what a judge would make of an 18 month delay if it ever got that far...