DWP and Land registry

Ammah45

Hi all,
I need some advice please!

It's a long story but the DWP have sent me a large unpaid bill which apparently is based on a property they believe my late father had. But the said property actually belonged to his friend who passed away in 2021 and my father briefly resided there. 
The DWP has asked me to prove that my father did not own that property!
I have been onto the land registry site, paid £3 for a document which only lists when the property was bought in 2022, by who, and for how much! It doesn't list who owned it before that.

My question is whether there is such a document and if so how I can get hold of it? I guess I will need some historical data showing that my father never owned any part of that property.

Thanks in advance 

user1977

Yes, the main point of a land register is to provide current information. But the Land Registry can provide historical information, if you hunt around on their website you should find out how to get that. Or you could turn it around and suggest to the DWP that they go and get the information...

Ammah45

user1977 said:

Yes, the main point of a land register is to provide current information. But the Land Registry can provide historical information, if you hunt around on their website you should find out how to get that. Or you could turn it around and suggest to the DWP that they go and get the information...

Thanks.
I looked on the land registry site and it's not clear which document it is and given that they all charge a fee, I want to make sure I get the correct one. So I turned to this site for advice.

I spoke to someone at DWP today and apparently it's up to me as the executor to provide proof. They won't do a thing. 
 

p00hsticks

Ammah45 said:

user1977 said:

Yes, the main point of a land register is to provide current information. But the Land Registry can provide historical information, if you hunt around on their website you should find out how to get that. Or you could turn it around and suggest to the DWP that they go and get the information...

Thanks.
I looked on the land registry site and it's not clear which document it is and given that they all charge a fee, I want to make sure I get the correct one. So I turned to this site for advice.

I spoke to someone at DWP today and apparently it's up to me as the executor to provide proof. They won't do a thing. 
 

There is a very helpful Land Registry rep who frequents these boards - hopefully this @Land_Registry will attract their attention and they wil be able to point you in the right direction 

Alphatauri

This is the page that takes you to the form to request a copy of the deeds. https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds

What you want is all the transfer documents showing the ownership chain. May I suggest you do a search of sold house prices on Rightmove or Zoopla as these may show when the property was sold enabling you to be more specific I.e. Transfer deeds from May 2014 to Sept 2022. 

Ammah45

Alphatauri said:

This is the page that takes you to the form to request a copy of the deeds. https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds

What you want is all the transfer documents showing the ownership chain. May I suggest you do a search of sold house prices on Rightmove or Zoopla as these may show when the property was sold enabling you to be more specific I.e. Transfer deeds from May 2014 to Sept 2022. 

Thanks. I have been to that site but all I can get is a document showing who owns it now and how much was paid for it. I can't see a document listing the name of previous owners.

Ammah45

JamesRobinson48 said:

I can understand why DWP might be asking. They may come across cases where the owner of a property disposed of it as a gift or at a very low price. In order to reduce the owner's assets and enable them to claim means-tested benefits and/or care costs (deprivation of assets). On these boards we sometimes come across a forumite proposing to do just that. So I think it's in the executors' best interest to dig up the information themselves and engage with DWP in a constructive way.  As OP is wisely doing.

That's precisely why I am doing it. But I can't find the right document that shows previous owners. I was hoping someone here would know what it is called.

Land_Registry

p00hsticks said:

Ammah45 said:

user1977 said:

Yes, the main point of a land register is to provide current information. But the Land Registry can provide historical information, if you hunt around on their website you should find out how to get that. Or you could turn it around and suggest to the DWP that they go and get the information...

Thanks.
I looked on the land registry site and it's not clear which document it is and given that they all charge a fee, I want to make sure I get the correct one. So I turned to this site for advice.

I spoke to someone at DWP today and apparently it's up to me as the executor to provide proof. They won't do a thing. 
 

There is a very helpful Land Registry rep who frequents these boards - hopefully this @Land_Registry will attract their attention and they wil be able to point you in the right direction 

If the property was registered at the time then you’ve got three choices really. However it can be tricky to prove a negative as the land register records who did own it rather than who didn’t - so it’s best to ask DWP what proof do they generally accept in such cases 

Form HC1 is used to obtain an historical edition of a register - so who owned it on a specific date
Form OC2 is used to obtain a copy of an actual transfer or two deed so for example a Transfer from A to B and then the next one from B to C 
Form PN1 (Land Charges name search) is the third option and often used by people living in Ireland, having moved from England/Wales, as proof they don’t own a property here as they are applying for housing for example. 

So ask DWP which works for them and post again or DM the property address and I can try and give you a steer re HC1 or OC2 or both 

Ammah45

Land_Registry said:

p00hsticks said:

Ammah45 said:

user1977 said:

Yes, the main point of a land register is to provide current information. But the Land Registry can provide historical information, if you hunt around on their website you should find out how to get that. Or you could turn it around and suggest to the DWP that they go and get the information...

Thanks.
I looked on the land registry site and it's not clear which document it is and given that they all charge a fee, I want to make sure I get the correct one. So I turned to this site for advice.

I spoke to someone at DWP today and apparently it's up to me as the executor to provide proof. They won't do a thing. 
 

There is a very helpful Land Registry rep who frequents these boards - hopefully this @Land_Registry will attract their attention and they wil be able to point you in the right direction 

If the property was registered at the time then you’ve got three choices really. However it can be tricky to prove a negative as the land register records who did own it rather than who didn’t - so it’s best to ask DWP what proof do they generally accept in such cases 

Form HC1 is used to obtain an historical edition of a register - so who owned it on a specific date
Form OC2 is used to obtain a copy of an actual transfer or two deed so for example a Transfer from A to B and then the next one from B to C 
Form PN1 (Land Charges name search) is the third option and often used by people living in Ireland, having moved from England/Wales, as proof they don’t own a property here as they are applying for housing for example. 

So ask DWP which works for them and post again or DM the property address and I can try and give you a steer re HC1 or OC2 or both 

Thank you very much. Can I send you a private message?

RAS

Land_Registry suggested that you DM the property address so they are expecting a private message, if you want to use that channel.

Land_Registry

As RAS posts DM is a direct (private) message and I thought that was a generic acronym across MSE and other forums. Although on here it’s simply referred to as a “Message” 
Either way send a private message with specifics and I’ll do my best to offer a steer 
If a private message isn’t warranted then best way is to use our Contact form and our support team can assist with a suitable steer also 
https://customerhelp.landregistry.gov.uk/guide-page-external/?stepid=2b31bc48-eb96-eb11-b1ac-002248413956