What next?

kelloggs36

I will try to make this as short as possible.
My FIL died last year; he had been in a care home and there had been a huge dispute between the siblings (who were all on the same page) and their step mother regarding how much money she demanded from her husband's funds to keep the house etc. Her name is not on the deeds and house has no mortgage. It ended up on court where she was told to supply all accounts which she agreed to bit failed to supply. The siblings and she agreed via the court a monthly amount  ( all had poa) which was paid to her.
He then died and sadly, she has continued to be obstructive. She and my husband's brother are joint executors but she is refusing to sign any probate forms. She is demanding money from the estate for items of clothing and toiletries she bought for her husband whilst he was on the care home, despite not claiming or mentioning it before. She wants it paid before she will sign the forms. She cashed in one of his AVIVA policies that the siblings were unaware of and cannot get AVIVA to give them any info.
She was also sent a tax refund and a refund from the DWP and has cashed it but not put ot into the executors' account. She said she used it to have some repairs done on the house. The other executor has created a spreadsheet of all income and expenditure from his father's accounts but she is demanding miney saying she is owed some from when he was in the care home. BIL is saying that nothing can be paid, even if they agreed, until probate has been granted.  Oh, she also took approx 1k of his money when he went into the home, as well as the AVIVA and refunds since.
He is in the process of seeking legal advice but is there a case of fraud here? 
 

swingaloo

As his wife I would have thought she would  have rights before the siblings. 

kelloggs36

In what respect? 

Claude_and_Eustace

Do you know what the Aviva policy is? I received a Aviva pension from my late husband which is outside of the estate. 

Linton

What did the will say? On the face of it there seems to be remarkably cruel and unsympathetic  behaviour to the poor woman who has lost her hsband.

If she and BIL are executors BIL has no more rights than she does. Where do the siblings fit into the picture?  They would seem to have no authority here.  Them having poa is irrelevent - poa ends on the death of the donor. There is no requirement for executors to provide accounts until the estate is dustributed and that is only to those beneficiaries who are due a % of the estate.

Perhaps more info is needed.

kelloggs36

I was trying to give some background info, hence mentioning the poa. That went to court as she stole money from  accounts. She was told by the court to provide them but still she refused. Regardless, the family said they would not chase her for the stolen money. The willleaves her a fixed sum and the restbis to be distributed among other named beneficiaries. She is to stay in the house and nobody has a problem with that. The family, other than her, know what the AVIVA was other than it was investment funds. She has cashed and kept the refunds due to the estate. There is no cruelty towards her at all; the inly thing happening g is that she has stolen money and won't sign any forms.

Linton

I would suspect that the costs of court action would greatly exceed the costs of toiletries and clothing for her husband (how dare she spend his money on that!).  Perhaps the house repairs were necessary and as has been suggested the Aviva policy could be due to her anyway.  I cannot see a judge sending her to jail for fraud given what you have told us.

Perhaps some adult and conciliatory behaviour on the part of her step children would be more appropriate.  My view anyway.

Voyager2002

I think it would be useful if the family could arrange for her to see a solicitor. The solicitor should explain that the bulk of the funds held by the estate cannot be released until she signs the forms for probate. S/He should also explain that money such as the proceeds of the insurance policy probably belong to the estate, and she should provide information about this so that everything can be arranged properly. At the same time she clearly has rights and there are laws to protect her rights: the solicitor is able and willing to ensure that this happens (for an appropriate fee).

Sea_Shell

kelloggs36 said:

I was trying to give some background info, hence mentioning the poa. That went to court as she stole money from  accounts. She was told by the court to provide them but still she refused. Regardless, the family said they would not chase her for the stolen money. The willleaves her a fixed sum and the restbis to be distributed among other named beneficiaries. She is to stay in the house and nobody has a problem with that. The family, other than her, know what the AVIVA was other than it was investment funds. She has cashed and kept the refunds due to the estate. There is no cruelty towards her at all; the inly thing happening g is that she has stolen money and won't sign any forms.

So you all had POA for your fathers financials, whilst he was in care, but you withheld money from his wife and it had to go to court!!    Any particular reason that he didn't have his WIFE as POA?   

It's strange that a wife had to resort to "theft" from her husband to keep the household running in his absence.   Especially if she didn't have much in her own name, as if he always did money stuff.    Was she financially dependent on him for her personal money too?  But got "cut off", once you had POA.

So sadly now he has died.    The Aviva investment could have been a type of bond, with a life insurance aspect, which she may have been listed as the direct beneficiary of.   AIUI this would be payable direct and outside the estate?

You need to get together and discuss this in a calm and adult way.

But TBH I can see why she is being awkward.   


(Sorry if i've got the wrong end of the stick, but that's how it reads to me)


ETA - this does raise the issue of what is "best interests" in cases like this.    What should any POA do in this situation where they are acting for one half of a married couple, if the POA documents don't specify how they'd like their finances managed.   

Seasalt3

• Surely his wife is entitled to inherit and would reasonably be expected to need money to live and pay bills.  So how can that be theft??

Sea_Shell

Seasalt3 said:

• Surely his wife is entitled to inherit and would reasonably be expected to need money to live and pay bills.  So how can that be theft??

Without PoA, I'm guessing she didn't have any LEGAL authority to access money in his sole accounts, even if she had the ability to.  (Knew log ins etc)

Since his death, she may still be able to gain access, without probate, if his banks haven't been notified.  It doesn't sound like she's entitled to all of it, if some cash bequests have been made to others. 

It all sounds very messy. ☹️