Bank have gone back on chargeback

Tilleyboatje762759682

Hi everyone

I'm at my wits end and would highly appreciate some advice if possible. 

I bought a car back in November 2023 from an independent garage and had serious problems almost immediately. Two separate mechanics inspected it for me shortly after the "check engine" light came on, 3 days after I bought the car. Both said that there were serious faults and recommended that I take it back to the seller. I attempted to do this but he refused to take it back, saying that I should have it fixed under warranty. Both mechanics suggested that this was not wise. 

I had lost confidence in the car by then and was determined to get refunded. It was at this point that I discovered the concept of a chargeback (on this forum actually). I decided to pursue this option through my bank, HSBC, who refer to it as a dispute resolution. After providing all documents, they agreed to a temporary refund pending an investigation. I spoke to an employee on the phone, which I recorded, who stated clearly that if the money was still in my account by 10 January (2 months after I finalised the application) then the application could be considered successful and the money would remain there permanently. On 13 January the money was still in the account, so I phoned the bank who confirmed that the case was closed and that the chargeback was successful. I explained that I was worried that the car would break down on the way to the dealership, to which the employee explained that I simply needed to make the car "available for collection". I did this. 

Fast forward to 15 April and I received a letter from HSBC saying that they investigated the chargeback and were unsuccessful and that visa had ruled in favour of the merchant! The letter was so badly written that I phoned the fraud office. Not even my card number or date of transaction was correct! Unfortunately, it was a genuine letter and the money has been taken out of my account. 

In the meantime, I have bought another car, which I can't afford without the money from the first car back and have been put into a substantial overdraft. I unfortunately bought the car with a debit card as the card machine didn't take Amex. Stupid of me, I know! 

Any suggestions as to what my other options are? I was thinking of the financial ombudsman as surely the bank can't say that the chargeback was successful and then just change their mind over three months later! 

I would highly value any advice or comment. The situation is causing me stress beyond belief. 

Many thanks in advance.

Aylesbury_Duck

Follow the bank's complaints process and if it doesn't reach what you consider to be a correct conclusion, take it to the ombudsman.

Be aware that the whole process can take months, so you'll need to find a way to cover the overdraft in the meantime, and possibly permanently if the ombudsman doesn't side with you.

marcia_

 Did they collect the car? 

DullGreyGuy

Be realistic that the ombudsman will be unlikely to consider them paying for the car out of their own pocket as a reasonable resolution to your complaint. More likely they'll be asked to deal with the additional costs of the overdraft whilst you resolve the matter of the vehicle. 

Tilleyboatje762759682

marcia_ said:

 Did they collect the car? 

No, they didn't unfortunately. Does that affect things?

Tilleyboatje762759682

DullGreyGuy said:

Be realistic that the ombudsman will be unlikely to consider them paying for the car out of their own pocket as a reasonable resolution to your complaint. More likely they'll be asked to deal with the additional costs of the overdraft whilst you resolve the matter of the vehicle. 

Thank you for the advice. Do you think they may consider the fact that I missed out on the opportunity to fix the car under warranty because of their advice? 

Also, if you wouldn't mind sharing, what would your next steps be? Court action seems a long and expensive option and the car was only bought for £3600. I've heard that dodgy dealerships just refuse to pay damages anyway and re-open their company under a different name.

marcia_

Tilleyboatje762759682 said:

marcia_ said:

 Did they collect the car? 

No, they didn't unfortunately. Does that affect things?

 Yes definitely. The seller would have argued they provided a car which you still have so win by default with your bank refusing the chargeback 

pinkshoes

marcia_ said:

Tilleyboatje762759682 said:

marcia_ said:

 Did they collect the car? 

No, they didn't unfortunately. Does that affect things?

 Yes definitely. The seller would have argued they provided a car which you still have so win by default with your bank refusing the chargeback 

Under the short term right to reject, then unless the sales contract specifies otherwise, the buyer has to make the car available to collect, which the OP states they did.

@Tilleyboatje762759682 by the sounds of it, they have defended the chargeback stating that you did NOT return the car. Personally I would have returned it.

You now need to take court action. I'd return the car and write them a "Letter Before Action" giving them 14 days to refund in full before you take them to court for a full refund.

Dear X<Garage Name>. On X date I purchased <car details> and the engine light came on within 3 days. The car was inspected by two separate independent mechanics, both whom stated the car has serious faults. On this basis I used my Right to Reject (Consumer Rights Act 2015) on X date and made the car available for you to collect, which you failed to do. I have now returned the car to you at my own expense, and you now have 14 days from receipt of this letter to refund the sum of £XXXX which is the full price of the car, and the cost of having the car returned via you. I enclose a copy of the receipt from the tow truck company as well as the two reports showing that he car was not fit for purpose.

Q: Why did you get TWO garages to inspect it?!!?

Okell

Tilleyboatje762759682 said:

Hi everyone

I explained that I was worried that the car would break down on the way to the dealership, to which the employee explained that I simply needed to make the car "available for collection". I did this...

Presumably you were told this over the 'phone and have no evidence of being told to make it available for collection?

For future reference I would say it's advisable to record these sorts of conversation unless you're able to confirm them in writing or by email

born_again

. On 13 January the money was still in the account, so I phoned the bank who confirmed that the case was closed and that the chargeback was successful. I explained that I was worried that the car would break down on the way to the dealership, to which the employee explained that I simply needed to make the car "available for collection". I did this. 

Fast forward to 15 April and I received a letter from HSBC saying that they investigated the chargeback and were unsuccessful and that visa had ruled in favour of the merchant! 

Sound like who you spoke to that confirmed it was successful was not from the chargeback team & did not have access to the chargeback system, that would clearly show that retailer had contested the chargeback & that HSBC had gone back on Pre Arbitration. Which then means Visa (in this case) view the documents & arguments. Then make a binding decision.

Okell

born_again said:

. On 13 January the money was still in the account, so I phoned the bank who confirmed that the case was closed and that the chargeback was successful. I explained that I was worried that the car would break down on the way to the dealership, to which the employee explained that I simply needed to make the car "available for collection". I did this. 

Fast forward to 15 April and I received a letter from HSBC saying that they investigated the chargeback and were unsuccessful and that visa had ruled in favour of the merchant! 

Sound like who you spoke to that confirmed it was successful was not from the chargeback team & did not have access to the chargeback system, that would clearly show that retailer had contested the chargeback & that HSBC had gone back on Pre Arbitration. Which then means Visa (in this case) view the documents & arguments. Then make a binding decision.

So does that mean the chargeback has yet to be finally decided?  Or has Visa already reviewed the case and reached a binding decision?  

Will Visa know or have known that the bank simply told the OP to make the car available for collection and that he didn't need to return it?