Over paid rent. Do I have a case for refund.

dodgygrandad

During a non related conversation with the Estate Agent, who we paid our rent to, ie the Letting Agents, she informed me our landlord was thinking of selling the property we had rented for over 6 years.

This was in Dec 2023. I asked obvious questions & was told we would probably not be required to move until late Feb 2024.

I asked if the Estate Agent had any alternative properties they could offer us.

We viewed a suitable property on 13th Dec 2023 and stated we wanted to rent this new property.

The agents acknowledged our application on the 18th Dec & the "ball" started rolling.

30th Dec 2023 we were served with a Section 21 eviction notice & informed us we needed to vacate before the 21st Feb 2024.

Meanwhile, we had met our new landlady & asked to move in on the 1st Feb 2024, not wanting to risk losing the opportunity by delaying until 20th Feb 2024.

15 Jan 2023 the Estate Agent confirmed the 1st Feb move in date. I had verbally told them we would vacate the old property on the 6th Feb. Giving us a few days to prepare the new house, empty & clean the old property and generally make sure all services/utilities etc were informed.

We normally paid our rent, by standing order, direct to the Estate Agents, around the 20th of the month. I decided, as a "sign of good faith" sort of thing and not wanting our rent payable account to be in arrears, to not cancel the Jan 2023 payment. I cancelled after this final payment was paid, naively assumed any over payment would carry over to the new tenancy & we would maintain our good credit record.

We moved in to and out of the properties as planned, subsequently receiving a full refund of our security deposit on the previous property. At this time I enquired about the over payment of rent on this previous property.

This was on the 18th March 2024. The Estate Agents have, since, just fobbed me off passing the blame to the, un-contactable, "Accounts Department". I emailed 5 days ago stating that if I had not received the refund & an account breakdown (final statement) by today, I would issue a LBA, no response at all except to acknowledge receipt of my email.

I admit we did not give written 30 days notice of our intention to vacate. However, the estate agent was fully aware of our intentions & the reasons behind our move. In fact they began our new tenancy application mid Dec 2023, almost two months prior to our move.

Meanwhile the "old" property is being offered for sale by a different local Estate Agent. 

The amount in question btw is in excess of £400.

Do I have a case for a refund claim? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

propertyrental

"I had verbally told them we would vacate the old property on the 6th Feb."

* On what date did you serve this verbal notice?

* How did the LL/agent respond? By accepting your surrender of the tenancy on the 6th?

* tenancy periods are not usually divisible, so rent would be due for the full period. What are your tenancy period dates (assuming you are in a periodic, not fixed term, contract?

However S40

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/20/crossheading/housing-and-development/enacted

says rent must be returned where "the tenancy is brought to an end before the end of a period" but my understanding of this is 'brought to an end' by a court.

I may be wrong though.

dodgygrandad

At the time we were worried that our "new" home was not confirmed & our move out date was approaching. Therefore, I was on the phone every couple of days. I received an email on 15th Jan 2024 that our new tenancy agreement had been accepted, therefore I assume I provided verbal notice on the 14th/15th Jan.
At the same time the EA said they would check if the LL was happy to accept the 6th Feb as our move out date. He subsequently agreed. Note we never met nor spoke direct with the LL in the 6+yrs we were his tenants.

I assume our tenancy dates ran to the 20th - we were in effect on a rolling monthly short lease at this stage.

saajan_12

Comments in line.. basically can help with more specifics but the bottom line is probably not. 

dodgygrandad said:

....

The agents acknowledged our application on the 18th Dec & the "ball" started rolling.

30th Dec 2023 we were served with a Section 21 eviction notice & informed us we needed to vacate before the 21st Feb 2024. 
- thats not 2 months notice.. if the dates are correct, then the notice was invalid. Also they might have verbally said they would *like* you to move out by 21st Feb but that's not what a notice says - rather that on that date they will go to court for possession (with move out date much later)

Meanwhile, we had met our new landlady & asked to move in on the 1st Feb 2024, not wanting to risk losing the opportunity by delaying until 20th Feb 2024.

15 Jan 2023 the Estate Agent confirmed the 1st Feb move in date. - okay, that's as a representative of the new LL. Nothing to do with their role as representative of the old LL. 
I had verbally told them we would vacate the old property on the 6th Feb. Giving us a few days to prepare the new house, empty & clean the old property and generally make sure all services/utilities etc were informed. - verbal notice usually doesn't count, but what did the agent say in response? Note its not enough if they said nothing.. only if they actually explicitly agreed that the tenancy would end, might you have a chance. 

We normally paid our rent, by standing order, direct to the Estate Agents, around the 20th of the month. I decided, as a "sign of good faith" sort of thing and not wanting our rent payable account to be in arrears, to not cancel the Jan 2023 payment. I cancelled after this final payment was paid, naively assumed any over payment would carry over to the new tenancy & we would maintain our good credit record. - you keep emphasising It's direct to the EA, but the rent ultimately goes to the LL and there's no reason to think one LL has anything to do with another. Regardless of payments, you still have to make sure the tenancy is legally  ended else you'd owe the old LL. 

We moved in to and out of the properties as planned, subsequently receiving a full refund of our security deposit on the previous property. At this time I enquired about the over payment of rent on this previous property. - not clear its an overpayment yet.. that would be based on when the tenancy legally ended not when you moved out. 

This was on the 18th March 2024. The Estate Agents have, since, just fobbed me off passing the blame to the, un-contactable, "Accounts Department". I emailed 5 days ago stating that if I had not received the refund & an account breakdown (final statement) by today, I would issue a LBA, no response at all except to acknowledge receipt of my email. - they don't owe you a rent statement, it's up to each party to keep track of the rent paid / due for their own purposes. 

I admit we did not give written 30 days notice of our intention to vacate. However, the estate agent was fully aware of our intentions & the reasons behind our move. In fact they began our new tenancy application mid Dec 2023, almost two months prior to our move. - Them being aware and starting an application is meaningless, they don't know at that stage if it'll be successful, when you'll start, whether you'll have an overlap etc . The only relevant bit is what you said and what they said about the 6th Feb date - veey small chance you can argue that was accepted as notice or a mutual agreement to end early. 

Meanwhile the "old" property is being offered for sale by a different local Estate Agent. - when do they advertise it being available from? If you can tell when someone moves in, you at least have a maximum amount of rent you're liable for, as the old LL can't receive rent from two people. 

The amount in question btw is in excess of £400.

Do I have a case for a refund claim? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

cr1mson

Rent would be due until the 20th February unless you had served notice which it sounds like you didn't. Telling the estate agent you were leaving is not the same as giving notice to the landlord.

Also even if they had accepted the notification on 15th January that would not have ended the tenancy on the 6th February as would need to align with the tenancy period which it sounds like are 19th to 20th of month so would also end on 20th February.

dodgygrandad

"thats not 2 months notice.. if the dates are correct, then the notice was invalid. Also they might have verbally said they would *like* you to move out by 21st Feb but that's not what a notice says - rather that on that date they will go to court for possession (with move out date much later)"
You are right - after going through the emails it appears we were NOT served, merely issued with a notice requiring possession. Since we had been fore warned we simply accepted it as a Section 21 Notice. I suppose we could have delayed things but only to the same end. 

"okay, that's as a representative of the new LL. Nothing to do with their role as representative of the old LL. "
I accept that - I was just pointing out that the EA knew of our intentions.

"verbal notice usually doesn't count, but what did the agent say in response? Note its not enough if they said nothing.. only if they actually explicitly agreed that the tenancy would end, might you have a chance. "
See the post above.

"but the rent ultimately goes to the LL and there's no reason to think one LL has anything to do with another. Regardless of payments, you still have to make sure the tenancy is legally  ended else you'd owe the old LL."
I understand that - my point was that the EA were custodians of the funds. In my mind (ok begining to grasp I am naive here) the EA should be sure those funds are due to the LL before parting with them. 

"not clear its an overpayment yet.. that would be based on when the tenancy legally ended not when you moved out."  and
"they don't owe you a rent statement, it's up to each party to keep track of the rent paid / due for their own purposes."
Both understood and accepted.

"The only relevant bit is what you said and what they said about the 6th Feb date - veey small chance you can argue that was accepted as notice or a mutual agreement to end early. "
The EA understood our reasoning & it appeared the LL wanted earliest possession to put the property on the market.
As said in above post I was informed the LL accepted the early end date.

"If you can tell when someone moves in, you at least have a maximum amount of rent you're liable for, as the old LL can't receive rent from two people. "
The property was not re-rented it was put on the market for sale (iirc around 29th Feb).

Thanks for your time & effort in replying. It would seem I have little chance of a refund