Land Registry question - unregistered property

Land_Registry

Pluto_24 said:

Hi @Land_Registry
Could you please advise? Thank you 😊

Not too sure there’s much I can usefully add having read OP and later replies. All very sound and supportive. 

If it helps your Qs are standard ones re unregistered property but tbh the same apply to registered ones also re checking and confirming that what you are being sold matches what the unregistered deeds or registered title(s) confirm. 

As your solicitor has flagged IF you/they have any issues then they’ll ask the seller to register first and then you complete on a registered title presumably with issues resolved. Risk there is the seller says No, buy it and register yourselves or we’ll keep marketing it? 

Answers to your Qs will be found in the unregistered deeds, the adjoining title information and anything else you see on the ground or even Google images. Physical features on the ground normally denote where legal boundaries lie but that’s not always the case so checking all available information counts and then you decide if it all matches and minimal risk or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t and the sellers can’t satisfy your Qs then ball is in your court to ask them to register first as explained. 

So as posted it’s very much an issue for your solicitor to resolve with the sellers as appropriate - they’re your risk assessors 
An indemnity policy May only come into play IF the sellers say no to them registering first. But again do rely on your solicitor here 

RAS

It is your responsibility to compare the map in the deeds with the physical boundaries on the ground. Mine was actually a plan of the plot bought in the Victorian era on which three houses had been built, received with instructions to find out which one was going to be mine! I was the only one to realise that we own half the width of the back street. So don't have to pay council charges for hosting a skip.

There are loads of threads on here where people didn't check the plan and there was later trouble. They thought they'd bought a property with a large garden, for example, only to discover that their deeds showed a much smaller one, the previous owners having retained the rest. Bang goes the plan for an extension.

You need not only to alert your solicitor to the overlap but also to ensure this is settled before you exchange.

If you're unsure about the brown hatching means in detail, you need tell your solicitor to explain. Is the power station still there, or are you talking about a substation? There may be a wayleave which details the area.

Pluto_24

RAS said:

It is your responsibility to compare the map in the deeds with the physical boundaries on the ground. Mine was actually a plan of the plot bought in the Victorian era on which three houses had been built, received with instructions to find out which one was going to be mine! I was the only one to realise that we own half the width of the back street. So don't have to pay council charges for hosting a skip.

There are loads of threads on here where people didn't check the plan and there was later trouble. They thought they'd bought a property with a large garden, for example, only to discover that their deeds showed a much smaller one, the previous owners having retained the rest. Bang goes the plan for an extension.

You need not only to alert your solicitor to the overlap but also to ensure this is settled before you exchange.

If you're unsure about the brown hatching means in detail, you need tell your solicitor to explain. Is the power station still there, or are you talking about a substation? There may be a wayleave which details the area.

Yes sorry meant to say substation! It's still there. Thanks for the response!

Pluto_24

Land_Registry said:

Pluto_24 said:

Hi @Land_Registry
Could you please advise? Thank you 😊

Not too sure there’s much I can usefully add having read OP and later replies. All very sound and supportive. 

If it helps your Qs are standard ones re unregistered property but tbh the same apply to registered ones also re checking and confirming that what you are being sold matches what the unregistered deeds or registered title(s) confirm. 

As your solicitor has flagged IF you/they have any issues then they’ll ask the seller to register first and then you complete on a registered title presumably with issues resolved. Risk there is the seller says No, buy it and register yourselves or we’ll keep marketing it? 

Answers to your Qs will be found in the unregistered deeds, the adjoining title information and anything else you see on the ground or even Google images. Physical features on the ground normally denote where legal boundaries lie but that’s not always the case so checking all available information counts and then you decide if it all matches and minimal risk or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t and the sellers can’t satisfy your Qs then ball is in your court to ask them to register first as explained. 

So as posted it’s very much an issue for your solicitor to resolve with the sellers as appropriate - they’re your risk assessors 
An indemnity policy May only come into play IF the sellers say no to them registering first. But again do rely on your solicitor here 

Many thanks for the prompt response!

propertyrental

The issue here seems to be the boundary. The physical one not matching the Plan.

This is not something a solicitor will or could know about without visiting the property, which they don't, so they rely on their client to tell them about it.

And it's nothing to do with the property being unregistered - Even with a registered property it's important for a buyer to compare the actual garden with the registered Plan and tell his soliciotor if there's a discrepancy.

Pluto_24

propertyrental said:

The issue here seems to be the boundary. The physical one not matching the Plan.

This is not something a solicitor will or could know about without visiting the property, which they don't, so they rely on their client to tell them about it.

And it's nothing to do with the property being unregistered - Even with a registered property it's important for a buyer to compare the actual garden with the registered Plan and tell his soliciotor if there's a discrepancy.

Yes, there is no doubt about the ownership, just the land boundaries. I just wanted to understand what that means if we decide to go ahead and whether the first registration becomes more complex

Pluto_24

Land_Registry said:

Pluto_24 said:

Hi @Land_Registry
Could you please advise? Thank you 😊

Not too sure there’s much I can usefully add having read OP and later replies. All very sound and supportive. 

If it helps your Qs are standard ones re unregistered property but tbh the same apply to registered ones also re checking and confirming that what you are being sold matches what the unregistered deeds or registered title(s) confirm. 

As your solicitor has flagged IF you/they have any issues then they’ll ask the seller to register first and then you complete on a registered title presumably with issues resolved. Risk there is the seller says No, buy it and register yourselves or we’ll keep marketing it? 

Answers to your Qs will be found in the unregistered deeds, the adjoining title information and anything else you see on the ground or even Google images. Physical features on the ground normally denote where legal boundaries lie but that’s not always the case so checking all available information counts and then you decide if it all matches and minimal risk or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t and the sellers can’t satisfy your Qs then ball is in your court to ask them to register first as explained. 

So as posted it’s very much an issue for your solicitor to resolve with the sellers as appropriate - they’re your risk assessors 
An indemnity policy May only come into play IF the sellers say no to them registering first. But again do rely on your solicitor here 

@Land_Registry We basically wanted to understand what the implications would be if we decide to go ahead.
There is no doubt on the ownership, searches came back ok, SIM did not identify anything else other than the land is unregistered. It's just the boundaries.

So if we go ahead, does the first registration become more complicated because of the boundary discrepancies or basically we agree we won't claim that small piece of land and "redefine" the boundaries? I think the physical boundaries were there for over 15years so probably won't be able to claim it anyway. We just don't understand how this changes things, what is the actual risk is (more time to register or not being able go register the property at all) and what the next steps are. Still trying to get hold of our solicitor..

Land_Registry

Your ‘risk assessor’ is your solicitor and tbh it’s not entirely clear what your issues are - probably just my reading of things. 

You say all your searches have confirmed the property/land is unregistered. You refer to an overlap though with your neighbour and that land being registered to the neighbour - those two statements conflict one another so you need to be sure whether that land is included in the sale/unregistered deeds or not. 

If it isn’t then it’s the neighbours as already registered so no risk. However if you are saying it is included but already registered then that is something to resolve either by completing and registering your purchase but without that land. Or the seller explains/sorts it before you complete. 

The sub station access will be clear from the deeds. The ‘risk’ as you put it presumably isn’t an issue unless you have plans for the access land which can’t go ahead because of the right of access. And if the seller has built over that access then there’s clearly an issue to resolve or assess with your solicitor. 

Pluto_24

Land_Registry said:

Your ‘risk assessor’ is your solicitor and tbh it’s not entirely clear what your issues are - probably just my reading of things. 

You say all your searches have confirmed the property/land is unregistered. You refer to an overlap though with your neighbour and that land being registered to the neighbour - those two statements conflict one another so you need to be sure whether that land is included in the sale/unregistered deeds or not. 

If it isn’t then it’s the neighbours as already registered so no risk. However if you are saying it is included but already registered then that is something to resolve either by completing and registering your purchase but without that land. Or the seller explains/sorts it before you complete. 

The sub station access will be clear from the deeds. The ‘risk’ as you put it presumably isn’t an issue unless you have plans for the access land which can’t go ahead because of the right of access. And if the seller has built over that access then there’s clearly an issue to resolve or assess with your solicitor. 

Thank you. Your understanding of our concern is correct, which is how we register the land given the red boundaries in the deed if there's a conflict with the neighbour's registered land. But it sounds that you can simply register it by omitting that piece of land.

Land_Registry

Pluto_24 said:

Land_Registry said:

Your ‘risk assessor’ is your solicitor and tbh it’s not entirely clear what your issues are - probably just my reading of things. 

You say all your searches have confirmed the property/land is unregistered. You refer to an overlap though with your neighbour and that land being registered to the neighbour - those two statements conflict one another so you need to be sure whether that land is included in the sale/unregistered deeds or not. 

If it isn’t then it’s the neighbours as already registered so no risk. However if you are saying it is included but already registered then that is something to resolve either by completing and registering your purchase but without that land. Or the seller explains/sorts it before you complete. 

The sub station access will be clear from the deeds. The ‘risk’ as you put it presumably isn’t an issue unless you have plans for the access land which can’t go ahead because of the right of access. And if the seller has built over that access then there’s clearly an issue to resolve or assess with your solicitor. 

Thank you. Your understanding of our concern is correct, which is how we register the land given the red boundaries in the deed if there's a conflict with the neighbour's registered land. But it sounds that you can simply register it by omitting that piece of land.

Correct - the application has to make it clear what’s being registered for the first time. Check out form FR1 to see how that’s defined on application - there a few ways of doing it. 

Issues will arise if you apply to include land that’s already been registered which could trigger contact with registered owner or we’d simply exclude it on registration 
And as far as understanding risks go IF you are buying with a mortgage often the lender has first say on which ‘risks’ can be taken and that often decides whether the seller has to register first or not. It’s not always your choice if borrowing to secure the property