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Court Hearing at Birmingham County Court Next Week - Do Gladstones Actually Turn Up?

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Comments

  • LDast
    LDast Posts: 2,496 Forumite
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    @Snowty, please start your own thread if you are seeking advice or wish to convey the outline of your story. It gets confusing when someone else's thread has distracting posts about other cases.
  • Snowty
    Snowty Posts: 24 Forumite
    10 Posts Photogenic
    indeed i started my own exact 9 min before heads up as i did realised i was hijacking this. Apology
  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 24,698 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    You could send a message to the forum team and ask them to extract your posts from here and post on your new thread.  Give them both thread URLs.
  • Zbubuman
    Zbubuman Posts: 233 Forumite
    100 Posts Name Dropper
    Name of the Judge?  Will help others if they come across him or her in the future. 
  • LDast
    LDast Posts: 2,496 Forumite
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    Well done. Thankfully, you only needed to win on one of your defence points and did so. The judges reasoning for refusing to accept that the PoC were in breach of CPR 16.4 show either ignorance or wilful neglect of the rules.

    As I am now advocating for the use of a simple "short" defence which has been drafted by a long serving district judge which includes a draft order for the allocating judge to force these roboclaimers who use the MCOL excuse not to provide proper particulars of case, to resubmit a full statement of case, which in the judges experience, not one single claimant has managed to comply with and all cases have been struck out at this stage.

    There is understandable resistance to the alternative "short" defence from regulars but I have been in discussion with the judge over the last week and the defence and the draft order have been refined. There are already a couple of cases (not on MSE) that have already submitted the short defence and on eon here which was done through MCOL as a last minute "Hail Mary" to avoid a default CCJ.

    The resistance to the short defence appears to be based on the fact that the defence offers no other defence other than the fact that the defendant is unable to plead any defence based on the failure of the PoC to follow CPR 16.4(1)(a). The draft order gives the allocating judge a tool to force the claimant to submit full PoC that must comply with all the points in the order, and would have covered your point about CPR 16.7.5 among other things.

    One of the arguments against the sort defence is what if the allocating judge disagrees that the PoC are not fully compliant with CPR 16.4, then the defence would have no content applicable. The judge who has drafted this believes that it is extremely unlikely that any allocating judge would ignore the simple defence and let it go to a hearing as is. He maintains that most judges in England and Wales are already very familiar with the template (boilerplate) defence used here and most never read it and simply let it go to a hearing.

    If the claimant fully complies with the order (which is highly unlikely) then the judge can make a consequential order for filing of an amended defence.

    For information, this is the draft order that goes with the short defence that would hopefully stop these poorly pleaded claims ever getting to hearing stage:

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gkv600e5h7bgsuswkan0l/short-defence-order.pdf?rlkey=cce8wmu56zwhtikoo9eq3ciyu&st=cdz7u98d&dl=0


  • 1505grandad
    1505grandad Posts: 3,822 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    AND the court being of the view that there is a lack of precise detail in the particulars of claim in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the defendants) such that the particulars of claim do not comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a)

    Pedantic observation  -  is there a bracket missing or is the bracket after "defendants)" not required?
  • hh2000
    hh2000 Posts: 17 Forumite
    10 Posts Name Dropper
    Zbubuman said:
    Name of the Judge?  Will help others if they come across him or her in the future. 
    Employment Judge Hodgson - I suspect the 'Employment' part is the problem...
  • Grizebeck
    Grizebeck Posts: 3,967 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper Photogenic
    hh2000 said:
    Zbubuman said:
    Name of the Judge?  Will help others if they come across him or her in the future. 
    Employment Judge Hodgson - I suspect the 'Employment' part is the problem...
    Not at all.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,826 Forumite
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    edited 25 July 2024 at 11:05PM
    Well done! You argued it all really well before what sounds like a rookie or maybe an opinionated/unmovable Judge.

    ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!

    The Judge is clearly wrong about the POC and as well as CEL v Chan, we now have a second Circuit Judge appeal decision confirming that parking firm boilerplate POC fails to meet the requirements in Part 16.

    You can read the Akande case from Manchester, in @Le_Kirk's 'judgments' thread (replied on today).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
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