COPE

Sahara20

HMRC has advised I have a weekly COPE projection of £50.  I tracked down my old contracted out pensions and was informed they had all been transferred into a new  singular pension provider.

New provider said they don't pay COPE and directed me back to HMRC who can't help.

My question is have I lost the money and is there anyway of retrieving it?

Marcon

Sahara20 said:

HMRC has advised I have a weekly COPE projection of £50.  I tracked down my old contracted out pensions and was informed they had all been transferred into a new  singular pension provider.

New provider said they don't pay COPE and directed me back to HMRC who can't help.

My question is have I lost the money and is there anyway of retrieving it?

You haven't 'lost' it so there's nothing to retrieve. See https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6445947/good-and-short-explanation-of-cope#latest

dunstonh

New provider said they don't pay COPE and directed me back to HMRC who can't help.

COPE is not a real figure.  It's purpose has now passed and you shouldn't view it as an explicit amount.

My question is have I lost the money and is there anyway of retrieving it?

No to the first bit and you already have as its in your pension to the second bit.

Sahara20

Thanks.  It does seem like they want to overcomplicate things and that causes more confusion.

Beddie

Sahara20 said:

Thanks.  It does seem like they want to overcomplicate things and that causes more confusion.

They do! I wasn't sure quite what it was all about either, when I first saw it on my pension forecast.

xylophone

To explain further.

At some stage in your working life, you were in a pension scheme (or schemes)  "contracted out" of State Earnings Related

Pension/ State Second Pension (SERPS 1978 -  2002/ S2P 2002/2012/16 ).


During that period, you and your employer paid a lower NI rate - you would not have accrued any SERPS  (but  S2P was a possibility

even if  contracted out  for those on a modest income).


You were, though, accruing Basic State Pension ( through  NI qualifying years) and a pension in the contracted out Pension Scheme.




On 6/4/16, the New State Pension was introduced.  Two calculations were done in order to establish your "starting amount" for NSP.


Your "starting amount" was the higher of 

Old Rules

NI qualifying years  (max 30) x Full Basic SP (£119.30)  +  (SERPS/S2P - Deduction for Contracting Out)

New Rules

{NIQY (max 35) x Full New State Pension (£155.65) } - Contracted Out Pension Equivalent.


The COPE  (used once only for the calculation above) was the equivalent of what you would have accrued had you been

contracted in and represents pension  payable by the contracted out pension scheme (s)).


If the starting amount was less than a full  NSP, there was the possibility  (depending on individual circumstances) of improving it

up to (but not in excess of) full NSP through NI contributions or credits.


You would have been expecting (are still expecting?) your contracted out schemes to pay you a pension when you reached

Scheme Normal Retirement Age. Your COPE is within these amounts but you should be aware that it may or may not be exactly

£50 a week.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/state-pension-fact-sheets/contracting-out-and-why-we-may-have-included-a-contracted-out-pension-equivalent-cope-amount-when-you-used-the-online-service#:~:text=Pension Equivalent amount.-,The Contracted Out Pension Equivalent ( COPE ),had not been contracted out.


From what you have indicated above, it is not quite clear as to whether the  administration of the schemes has been farmed out

to the likes of Equiniti or Capita or Willis Towers Watson etc OR the pensions accrued were transferred to individual insurance

policies.


Either way, it is surprising that you have not been advised of the situation.

Can you clarify?

Sarahspangles

Sahara20 said:

Thanks.  It does seem like they want to overcomplicate things and that causes more confusion.

If HMRC didn’t provide a COPE figure, people who remembered they had contracted out would ask for one!

Sahara20

Today I learnt  that this provider/ scheme does not do COPE. This scheme  originally offered to amalgamate/ transfer old schemes into one for ease and took care of it.  (This was through my then workplace). 

Is this normal?   Confused as someone said you won't have lost anything yet someone else said you need to know your COPE figure.  If so why?

In summary, have I lost money and if so is there any way of finding it?

Sahara20

This transfer/ amalgamation happened over a decade ago.  

p00hsticks

Sahara20 said:

Today I learnt  that this provider/ scheme does not do COPE. This scheme  originally offered to amalgamate/ transfer old schemes into one for ease and took care of it.  (This was through my then workplace). 

Is this normal?   Confused as someone said you won't have lost anything yet someone else said you need to know your COPE figure.  If so why?

In summary, have I lost money and if so is there any way of finding it?

The only reason you might need to know your COPE figure is to help you (or others) work out whether it is worth you filling in any gaps in your NI record to boost your state pension amount. 

COPE (contracted out pension equivalent) is broadly speaking an approximation of the additional state pension you would have got if you had been 'contracted in', - you were 'contracted out' meaning that you paid a lower rate of NI in the past and built up funds in a private pension instead.  

So the money you are looking for is just what you have in that provider / scheme. How much is that projected to be paying you ? 

Sahara20

Despite being contacted out (unwittingly)  NI is ok, no gaps. 

Should I not have agreed to transfer pensions with COPE?  

How does the pension pot size determine the COPE amount if it isn't detailed in any breakdown?

Sorry, I am a pension novice.