CP Plus parking penalty on NHS property

Sarabibuffles

Can anyone advise my rights here please.
I am an NHS employee and use a car park at work for which I have a valid permit.

I received a parking charge notice out of the blue on the 15th April 2024 for a parking penalty in the work car park, dated 16.10.23. It’s the first I’m aware of it. I don’t recall where I parked almost 7 months ago, but there was no ticket on my car at the time.

Had I been aware of of it at the time I would have appealed  immediately and paid the reduced fee if unsuccessful. The alleged contravention was parking in a disabled bay which was not clearly marked.. As it happened I did receive a parking ticket the following week, on the 23.10.24 when it emerged I had parked in a disabled bay. It was an easy mistake to make as it marked with a tiny sign which was not readily recognised as familiar to a driver as a disabled bay. There was no marking on the ground itself and the sign itself had small writing illegible from behind the wheel of a car. The sign did refer to blue badge holders and as my parking permit is blue I mistakenly believed it referred to the entire car park and the need to have a blue permit. Mea culpa.

I paid the fine and learnt my lesson. it was therefore a complete surprise to to receive a parking ticket for the week prior to the previous one, almost 7 months after the event. 

Obviously I don’t recall where I parked and given my mistake the following week, I can’t rule out the possibility I have made the same mistake the week before.  What I do know is that I would never had ignored a ticket if I had found one on my car. In fact I would already been alerted to the ambiguous sign and completely avoided the penalty the following week, had there been a ticket on my car on the 16th Oct.

If a ticket was issued I’m not sure what a consumers rights are if the ticket is not on the car when the driver returns to it. I can only imagine it must have been removed by someone else, or was not properly secured and blew off? It’s a mystery as to what happened to it, if it was indeed issued as stated. Since there was no ticket at the time, I have written to request some evidence of my erroneous parking and  in an attempt to resolve it have said that if they have evidence I would be willing to pay the reduced early payment fee which I did not have the opportunity to pay at the time, as there was no ticket on my car on that date when I returned to it.

I am yet to be provided with any evidence, and the response to my appeal and attempt to resolve it has been an email telling me they will not enter into any further correspondence with me and have passed my details onto a debt collection company. This is despite the fact that the letter they sent which was dated 10th April and I received in the post on 15th April states that if the fine isn’t paid within 28 days of this letter they may pass the matter to a debt collection company. I am not sure if the 28 days relates to date it was sent or date received, but I am threatened with debt collection 8 days after receipt of the first notice I’ve had of the penalty.

I thought our credit rating could not be affected by parking penalties on private land, but if debt collectors are getting involved this does not seem to be the case.

I feel I have made a reasonable offer to resolve the matter and have received a bullying response where their own stated processes (28 days) do not appear to have been followed. I have written to them again but not sure they will respond. I don’t know who to complain to. I tried POPLA but haven’t been supplied with a 10 digit verification code by CP Plus - presumably because I have not been able to appeal at the time of the alleged incident

So wanted to ask:

What are the rights are for motorists issued with a ticket retrospectively? I don’t ignore things like this, I would have dealt with it immediately if there had been a ticket on my car (as I did when I received a ticket the following week).

How do I complain to CP plus?

Is there an ombudsman? - when I searched I only came up with resolver which is just a conduit to complaining, rather than an ombudsman.

Don’t I have a right to be supplied with evidence? If so how can I ensure this happens before the debt collectors arrive?

Surely my offer to resolve the matter is reasonable?

Are they allowed to set the dogs on me before the 28 day period has expired. I’m obviously also concerned about the security of my data being passed to other companies.

All advice welcome

Thanks

Gr1pr

A DVLA KADOE contract with C P Plus stipulates 6 months to obtain keeper details and one month to get the PCN to the keeper 

No PCN needs to be left on the vehicle, but the 7 months deadline applies, 

The law named POFA 2012 may apply, if C P Plus fully complied with it 

Go to the BPA AOS member list on the BPA website and look for C P Plus, looking to the right you will see the link for complaints 

If it went to civil court within the next 6 years following the incident date, you lost in court, and you failed to pay the judgment promptly within 30 days, only then can it affect your credit rating or score, namely, the recorded CCJ does it, for 6 years 

No ombudsman, just Popla, the BPA, and your local MP, regulations arrive later this year, which doesn't help you at the moment 

Email a SAR to the DPO at C P Plus with redacted copies of 2 recent utility bills, plus a copy of the V5c too, to obtain all your data 

Debt collectors are powerless, nothing to worry about 

They can pass your data to debt collectors and to solicitors, but remain the principal data controller, they cannot sell the alleged debt, that stays with C P Plus 

I suggest that you study the Newbies thread near the top of the forum, about 6 threads down, but above your thread 

Fruitcake

It is not a fine nor a penalty, it is a parking charge notice, a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking company. What a pity you paid the last one.

Debt collectors are powerless and can safely be ignored. 

Plan A is a complaint from the keeper to the landowner/head of the hospital trust and the keeper's MP. Get your union involved if you are a member. Do not reveal the driver's identity.
Remind your employer of the following,

NHS car parking guidance 2022 for NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Plan B is to appeal using the template in blue text you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. Send it unaltered from the keeper unless the NTK is not PoFA compliant, in which case add a one liner that the keeper cannot be held liable.
If you are not sure whether the NTK is or is not PoFA compliant, post a redacted copy here, but leave all dates showing.

Get photos of the site and signage in readiness for Plan C, a PoPLA appeal.

The NEWBIES has all the advice you need at this stage, and acronyms/abbreviations common to this forum can be found in the fifth post of the said NEWBIES.

Coupon-mad

I thought our credit rating could not be affected by parking penalties on private land, but if debt collectors are getting involved this does not seem to be the case.

Incorrect on both counts (and whilst we agree that parking debt collectors are 'dogs' they are not coming round knocking).

You should NEVER pay a private parking charge, all the time that they remain unregulated.  Should not have paid the other one.

Anyway ignoring the debt collectors is a normal part of riding out this scam.

PLEASE READ the announcement thread on the forum, at/near the top of the thread list, called NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST.  The Fourth post there is all about laughable debt collector letters stage.

As the rules currently stand, PPCs don't have to put a PCN on the windscreen.  They probably didn't. They almost certainly posted it later to your V5C address they bought from the DVLA for tuppence.

Sounds like your V5C address is perhaps not up to date and you missed receiving the PCN in 2023?

When you say this below, what in fact was the first letter you got this month because it wasn't a first PCN, surely?

 I received a parking charge notice out of the blue on the 15th April 2024 for a parking penalty in the work car park, dated 16.10.23. 

Le_Kirk

Gr1pr said:

Email a SAR to the DPO at C P Plus with redacted copies of 2 recent utility bills, plus a copy of the V5c too, to obtain all your data 

The NEWBIES doesn't recommend submitting a SAR now until after the claim form with its sparse particulars of claim has been received.

Gr1pr

Agreed, but the OP was asking us how to obtain evidence etc, so my answer reflected that request, depends if they prefer to be in the dark regarding paperwork etc , or if they want to obtain copies of all paperwork, so my reply was to state their options in answer to specific questions, its their case so their choice 

I do accept that if a court claim was issued then sometimes it can help the defendant by not having their evidence etc , but the claimant has refused to enter into correspondence, but their DPO cannot refuse a SAR 

Coupon-mad

I would not request a SAR.  Just ignore it UNLESS this letter dated April is actually the Notice to Keeper, rather than a DRA letter.

The former can be appealed.

The latter, ignore.

It's unclear at the moment.

Sarabibuffles

Further to my post above, if CP Plus have - as they have stated - passed my details onto a debt collection company, surely this is classed as a data breach under GDPR rules?  GIven their letter states they may do so if the penalty remains unpaid after 28 days of their letter, that their email stating they have done so was received 8 days after receiving the first notification of the fine, yet I have not given permission to share my details; surely they have no legal right to do so? 

 I continue to await evidence of the erroneous parking and am not sure it will arrive within the 28 days. Not sure what my rights are if they dither in responding.

I am also unclear about when the 28 days starts when it states ‘within 28 days of this letter’ - does it mean 28 days of the date on the letter, or 28 days of receipt of the letter? Is there a legal rule about this? 

If anyone knows the legalities re this, I’d love to know.
many thanks

Gr1pr

Its currently an unregulated industry and won't become regulated until layer this year, hopefully 

Thete is nothing wrong with a private parking company employing a contractor like a debt collector or a solicitor to try to get an invoice paid, in these cases for the alleged breach of the parking contract between driver and parking company 

So they can share that data to the latter two , but they remain the data controller, they cannot sell that data, nor can their contractors, the data controller remains with the private parking company who would need to show that the data shared was a legitimate use in pursuit of an unpaid invoice ( in these cases. ) this typical use happens thousands of times every day by companies 

The 28 days is from the issue date on the postal notice to keeper

Its not a fine, or a penalty, its just a parking charge notice from a private com

Coupon-mad

Please tell us exactly what this April letter was and the conversation/appeal that was exchanged.  Do you have an appeal rejection letter and POPLA code?

Sarabibuffles

I don’t entirely understand the difference between a fine / penalty and a PCN - so not sure why the term is being corrected. I don’t know where I stand if I don’t pay as advised Can you explain?

I am concerned about my credit score being affected and the prospect of bullies arriving on my doorstep to charge me even more that the current charge to settle payment. I don’t understand my rights regarding this, and not all the replies agree with the advice to ignore and not pay.

Many replies have directed me to a newbie thread but I can’t seem to locate it. I’m using the website rather than app - perhaps that is why? Any heads up how to navigate to it - this site is not as intuitive as others.

Also can’t figure out how to reply to a specific post so will respond to both new comments here.

Coupon mad
The first notification of the penalty arrived by letter on 15th April. The date of the alleged offence is 16.10.23 (6 months earlier). I did write to appeal via email and was met with a letter stating they won’t enter into further correspondence and have passed my details to a debt collection company. 
I did contacts POPLA but they cannot start a new appeal without a 10 digit reference number. I have requested one from CP Plus but as they haven’t responded. I am aware that there is a time period I have missed for making an appeal, as I was not notified of the offence at the time, so I’m not sure it’s possible to get this 10 digit code.
I have requested evidence of the offence as there was no ticket on my car at the time of the alleged offence, and whilst they may be searching for it, I have received nothing as yet and it may not arrive before the 28 days have expired.

Gr1pr
As an NHS employee I am expected to uphold confidentiality of personal data using the Caldicott principles, and we do not share information without permission unless a safeguarding issue overrides the principle of upholding confidentiality.
Whether or not it is usual to share details with debt collectors, I am furious that my details have been shared without permission during the 28 days after the notification of the offence. Whoever remains the data controller, in my view it’s a breach of confidentiality. I have looked at the information commissioners office website and intend to report it. Whether or not it will go anywhere, I don’t know, but I don’t see why they should have this right to pass my data on.