Octopus energy, their cumulative meter total on your account doesn't match smart actual meter

BarelySentientAI

victor2 said:

BarelySentientAI said:

victor2 said:

You shouldn't have to be telling Octopus what they are reading, especially as they have one of the better reputations for customer service.
Information is power though and hopefully you have enough now to straighten it out!

If the OP didn't try to tell Octopus what they were reading, there wouldn't have been any confusion.

But, as the OP says, there could be if he tries to switch supplier

Quite correct.  Giving what would be seen as a 'wrong' opening reading to the new supplier.

I wonder what the Third Party would do with that.  Should be simple for them to understand with working smart meter pulls, but I suspect it would not be.

Veteransaver

BarelySentientAI said:

victor2 said:

You shouldn't have to be telling Octopus what they are reading, especially as they have one of the better reputations for customer service.
Information is power though and hopefully you have enough now to straighten it out!

If the OP didn't try to tell Octopus what they were reading, there wouldn't have been any confusion.

I submitted a manual reading to try to get a bill triggered as they hadn't invoiced for ages. I've submitted manual readings in the past without issue, so something has clearly changed recently with how Octopus are keeping track of the total meter reading.

MeteredOut

Veteransaver said:

victor2 said:

Veteransaver said:

victor2 said:

Have you asked Octopus (by email) to explain where those figures have come from?

I do not know how the tracker billing works, so would let someone who does offer an explanation of that.

Did large negative numbers follow the days after your manual reading in order to arrive at the total for the month?

Yes, I've asked them to be corrected. But I'm hitting a brick wall with the whole issue regarding them not showing the correct cumulative meter reading on my account. They simply say "it's fine", but it isn't fine as next time a manual meter reading is submitted the whole issue will start again.
And yes there are large negative usage numbers later in the bill, however because it's Tracker, the negative usage numbers go against cheaper unit rates, so overall the bill is way too high.  

If you Google for the instructions for your particular smart meter, you will hopefully find details on how to read the different registers. If you can then find the one Octopus are using, you can pursue the matter with Octopus further. Then just leave your meter showing that and hope that if you switch suppliers, the new supplier will pick that up as well. If they don't, at least you can explain it.

When you find the register Octopus are using, photograph the meter, then switch to the Total Import register you have been reading and photograph that too.

Thanks, that's very helpful. So yes, bizarrely when I just went to the meter it was showing Rate 1 import of 3816, which looks like that is what Octopus are using. But if I "cycle" through all the screens I can't actually see that Rate 01. Only the Total import of c8500. Which is what I was submitting. But I can only see that this is going to lead to widespread confusion and doesn't make any sense to me why you wouldn't give the total reading. So it looks like firstly I am going to need to get Octopus to remove my c8196 reading and re calculate.
I wonder whether up to the point I joined Go, Octopus were using one Rate, then switched to Rate1?

Did you switch to 30 minute readings at that time? I wonder if the remote signal sent to the meter caused it to send the rate1 rather than what it sounds like it was sending previously,

Netexporter

But I can only see that this is going to lead to widespread confusion and doesn't make any sense to me why you wouldn't give the total reading.

If a meter, smart or not, has been used on a multi-rate tariff in the past and is currently on a single rate tariff, the old Rx readings don't disappear but they do remain part of the total import figure. 

Veteransaver

BarelySentientAI said:

victor2 said:

BarelySentientAI said:

victor2 said:

You shouldn't have to be telling Octopus what they are reading, especially as they have one of the better reputations for customer service.
Information is power though and hopefully you have enough now to straighten it out!

If the OP didn't try to tell Octopus what they were reading, there wouldn't have been any confusion.

But, as the OP says, there could be if he tries to switch supplier

Quite correct.  Giving what would be seen as a 'wrong' opening reading to the new supplier.

I wonder what the Third Party would do with that.  Should be simple for them to understand with working smart meter pulls, but I suspect it would not be.

You'd think so wouldn't you, but seeing as Octopus couldn't deal with the "incorrect but not actually incorrect reading" I submitted and then produced an insane bill off the back of it, whilst actually having all the necessary data from the smart meter, I can only see a world of pain dealing with this issue between 2 suppliers.
I had enough trouble dealing with Eon 2 years ago when they removed my old meter and entered the final meter reading incorrectly which generated a billing error. Which would never had been identified unless I had spotted it, despite their vague assurances that they do an "audit" on all the removed meters. Which sounded like BS to me.

Veteransaver

MeteredOut said:

Veteransaver said:

victor2 said:

Veteransaver said:

victor2 said:

Have you asked Octopus (by email) to explain where those figures have come from?

I do not know how the tracker billing works, so would let someone who does offer an explanation of that.

Did large negative numbers follow the days after your manual reading in order to arrive at the total for the month?

Yes, I've asked them to be corrected. But I'm hitting a brick wall with the whole issue regarding them not showing the correct cumulative meter reading on my account. They simply say "it's fine", but it isn't fine as next time a manual meter reading is submitted the whole issue will start again.
And yes there are large negative usage numbers later in the bill, however because it's Tracker, the negative usage numbers go against cheaper unit rates, so overall the bill is way too high.  

If you Google for the instructions for your particular smart meter, you will hopefully find details on how to read the different registers. If you can then find the one Octopus are using, you can pursue the matter with Octopus further. Then just leave your meter showing that and hope that if you switch suppliers, the new supplier will pick that up as well. If they don't, at least you can explain it.

When you find the register Octopus are using, photograph the meter, then switch to the Total Import register you have been reading and photograph that too.

Thanks, that's very helpful. So yes, bizarrely when I just went to the meter it was showing Rate 1 import of 3816, which looks like that is what Octopus are using. But if I "cycle" through all the screens I can't actually see that Rate 01. Only the Total import of c8500. Which is what I was submitting. But I can only see that this is going to lead to widespread confusion and doesn't make any sense to me why you wouldn't give the total reading. So it looks like firstly I am going to need to get Octopus to remove my c8196 reading and re calculate.
I wonder whether up to the point I joined Go, Octopus were using one Rate, then switched to Rate1?

Did you switch to 30 minute readings at that time? I wonder if the remote signal sent to the meter caused it to send the rate1 rather than what it sounds like it was sending previously,

No, it's always had 30 minute readings, the meter itself was installed less than 2 years ago.
I got a whole download of my usage since August 2022, I can't see any obvious point in time where I changed tariffs that would correlate with the current meter reading (lets call it R1) that Octopus are using. 

Reed_Richards

If you are on a Time of Use tariff that uses half hourly meter readings (and Agile is one such) then your supplier will bill you according to the 30 minute meter readings.  It doesn't matter what the total meter reading is.    

SAC2334

Which make of smart meter do you have ? Secure Liberty electric meters have a total import reading and also another reading under the heading of Kvah which is a reading that businesses prefer to use in some countries. 

Netexporter

SAC2334 said:

Which make of smart meter do you have ? Secure Liberty electric meters have a total import reading and also another reading under the heading of Kvah which is a reading that businesses prefer to use in some countries. 

More information than you ever need, flashing past faster than you can read it.

mmmmikey

Hi - to sum up for the benefit of anyone who's head is spinning with all this:

1. Smart meters are universal and collect lots of different information to allow them to be used to provide billing information for a whole range of different tariffs.

2. This means that they collect a lot of different information and some of that information my not be relevant to the tariff you're on at the moment. It doesn't matter - suppliers just ignore the information they don't need.

3. Suppliers can change the configuration of the meter themselves. For example, they might set up up so it records the amount of information used between 01:00 and 08:00 which they can then use for generating the bill for an Economy 7 customer.

4. Although they can record lots of different information, smart meters only have simple displays and they can't display everything at once. This means that what is showing on the display may not be what you're looking for. 

5. The concept of a "meter reading" is pretty meaniningless if the meter can record and display lots of different things, you have to say which meter reading you want.

6. A lot of the time the reading you want will be the one that is normally displayed on the smart meter and in this case everything is fine and dandy and you can use the smart meter for manual readings just like you would have used an old-fashioned simple meter that only ever displays one thing.

7. But, as the OP has discovered, this is not always the case. So if you want to check the reading the supplier is using for billing purposes or submit an interim reading then you may need to press a few buttons on the smart meter to make it display the thing you're looking for. This works differently for different smart meters, and also different suppliers use the smart meter differently. So you need to (a) get the instructions for your meter, and (b) make sure you know what you're looking for. 

8. Unfortunately because smart meters are primarily designed to be read remotely, the sequence of button presses to display what you want isn't always intuitive and can involve pressing and/or holding different buttons in different sequences. Hardly ideal but that's the way it is.

So a better title for this thread might be something along the lines of: "If you're giving your energy supplier readings from your smart meter and it seems to be messing up your billing, you need to check you're giving them the right thing"

Unfortunately, the OP was thrown off the scent because the reading they were submitting could also be used to calculate the bill. 

Think about a car with a mileometer and a trip recorder, and imagine the button that the knob to reset the trip recorder has broken off. If you want to record your mileage for claiming expenses, you can either subtract the start mileage on the mileometer from the end mileage on the mileometer, or you can subtract the start mileage on the trip recorder from the end mileage on the trip recorder. It's completely arbitrary how you do it - you will get the same result. What you can't do for obvious reasons is mix and match - you have to take start and end mileage from the same place or you'll end up with spurious results.

What the OP did with out realising it is analagous to Octopus using the trip recorder for the bill, but the OP was giving Octopus interim readings from the mileometer which was just throwing everything out.

But not something to worry about - just a question of working out how to get the correct reading off your meter should you need to. And if you use the wrong reading it will normally be obvious that something is wrong.