Octopus unpaid energy bill, landlord, prior tenant issue

captrico

I have a bit of a problem regarding an outstanding energy bill thats gone on for 18 months.  When i took tenancy with my place i received bills shortly afterwards addressed to "the occupier" in the amount of around £300.   I figured the previous tenant who had moved out had left an unpaid bill or taken the bill out of their name and it rolled over to the landlords.    I mentioned this to the landlord and they said they would sort it out.  In the meantime a new bill showed up and it was in the landlords rental property name this time, but the old bill had been added to the new bill still showing the £300 +.     I was going to put it in my name previously, but after seeing that the old bill was being pushed onto the new bill I was apprehensive to do that.  I let my landlord know and they just said pay the monthly bill , etc and it will be OK.   

I have not been paying it as I am not the named person on the energy bill, and im not in any position to access the account as im not named on the bill.   So this has gone on for months like this.  I would like to pay what i owe, and i have the money for it, but in no way do i want that old bill attached to my name or be liable for that old debt.  The landlords are not exactly pro active in dealing with this and have a stand off approach in regards to anything to do with the place.  

My question is:  How can i approach the energy company and get this squared away so that i can pay what i used from day 1 to present day?  I have read online that people have inherited the previous 'occupiers' bill onto their new bill, and have struggled with the energy company trying to sort out the mess.  My tenancy is clear on what bills im responsible for and dated, so is that enough for the energy company to disregard the the previous 'occupier' bill that is still on the account? And as it has gone on for so long (in collections) will Octopus be willing to deal with me as the non account holder?

EssexHebridean

So, when you moved in you should have taken meter readings, given those to the supplier, and had an account created in your name. It sounds like you didn't do any of those things - is that the case? 

Assuming you did at least do the taking readings bit - do you still have the readings that you took on moving in? Disregard the landlord not being "very proactive" because it sounds like you haven't been either! If you do still have the readings, OR you have smart meters so the readings are easy to ascertain, (as they will already have been billed, and should be on record) then I would say your only real option is to contact the energy supplier, apologise, explain that you realise you should have done this sooner however you were previously under the impression your landlord was sorting things out, and say that you need to set up an account. I would guess because of the time that has elapsed they will need a copy of your tenancy agreement to verify when it was you moved in. 

saajan_12

captrico said:

I have a bit of a problem regarding an outstanding energy bill thats gone on for 18 months.  When i took tenancy with my place i received bills shortly afterwards addressed to "the occupier" in the amount of around £300.   I figured the previous tenant who had moved out had left an unpaid bill or taken the bill out of their name and it rolled over to the landlords.    I mentioned this to the landlord and they said they would sort it out.  In the meantime a new bill showed up and it was in the landlords rental property name this time, but the old bill had been added to the new bill still showing the £300 +.     I was going to put it in my name previously, but after seeing that the old bill was being pushed onto the new bill I was apprehensive to do that.  I let my landlord know and they just said pay the monthly bill , etc and it will be OK.   

I have not been paying it as I am not the named person on the energy bill, and im not in any position to access the account as im not named on the bill.   So this has gone on for months like this.  I would like to pay what i owe, and i have the money for it, but in no way do i want that old bill attached to my name or be liable for that old debt.  The landlords are not exactly pro active in dealing with this and have a stand off approach in regards to anything to do with the place.  

My question is:  How can i approach the energy company and get this squared away so that i can pay what i used from day 1 to present day?  I have read online that people have inherited the previous 'occupiers' bill onto their new bill, and have struggled with the energy company trying to sort out the mess.  My tenancy is clear on what bills im responsible for and dated, so is that enough for the energy company to disregard the the previous 'occupier' bill that is still on the account? And as it has gone on for so long (in collections) will Octopus be willing to deal with me as the non account holder?

Did you take meter readings on day 1? That's the only way to separate what is your usage since day 1 (unless there's a smart meter). Contact the energy co with these readings and set up an account in your name. The bills will then be between you and the energy co, regardless of the previous occupier or landlord. There's nothing for the LL to do, it's your responsibility. 

Unfortunately as it's been so long, it might be difficult to convince the energy co what the day 1 reading was, vs say you waiting and reading it after using a bunch of energy to pass some of the cost to someone else. That's a battle you'll have to fight when it comes up. 

captrico

Thanks.  No, i didnt take a reading.  Its a smart meter outside and inside, so i would assume they know the reading on any given day?  If i moved in on say the 10th of the x,y,z month then there should be a record showing usage from that day onwards......i would assume.  And yes, i should have been a bit more proactive with the whole thing.  I will pay it in one whack, but was concerned about the pre tenancy bill that Octopus will no doubt want to collect.  I would guess the 'occupier' in that case would be the owner of the property.  

Scot_39

For future reference never just assume smart meters are operating as smart.  Something like 4m of them are not.  That's over 1 in 10 installed.


If you didn't take a reading that's a big issue unless any of the paper bills in occupier or landlords names were confirming that were getting actual readings.   I.e. that they were not estimated bills.

If your lucky the landlord or their agents will have protected themselves by submitting a reading if meters not operating smart if there was a gap in tenancies.

But any failure (or deliberate act*)  on their part just transfers potential liability onto you as tenant - if you didn't protect yourself by taking day 1 readings and taking over the supply in your name - a risk you failed to defend yourself against.

[* worst case scenario previous tennant leaves n wldays / weeks before your new tenancy submitting final readings - right or wrong - unknown.  Landlord doesn't check to protect themselves.  Even if correct, landlord keeps lights, heating etc on - has contractors in doing any required works.  Doesn't submit readings as you move in, you don't submit readings, you get billed from last occupiers final readings.]


If you have no readings you have left yourself open to be legally liable for every bill issued since you moved in (or more accurately your tenancy commenced).

And by failing to register and setup the account with day 1 readings and to pay all relavent utility bills since - I mean for 18 months really ? - chances are you are and have been in a major violation of your tenancy agreement.

Which your landlord may well understandably take a very dim view of.  Especially if utility takes them to court for debt - which after 18 months I am amazed they wouldn't be pursuing someone.

You need to establish via any paper bills with actual readings or by contacting utility company - to see what info they have - and establish as good a baseline as possible.

And pay all due bills issued on that basis they issue.

Or any bills they issue in your name based on last good reading basis - including potentially a large proportion of the disputed £300 - and chalk it up as a valuable life lesson.

The lesson being - when move again  - rent (unless specifically included in rent) or buy  - always take day 1 readings and bills in your name - for all applicable utilities - gas, electric, water if metered etc..

captrico

Scot_39 said:

For future reference never just assume smart meters are operating as smart.  Something like 4m of them are not.  That's over 1 in 10 installed.


If you didn't take a reading that's a big issue unless any of the paper bills in occupier or landlords names were confirming that were getting actual readings.   I.e. that they were not estimated bills.

If your lucky the landlord or their agents will have protected themselves by submitting a reading if meters not operating smart if there was a gap in tenancies.

But any failure (or deliberate act*)  on their part just transfers potential liability onto you as tenant - if you didn't protect yourself by taking day 1 readings and taking over the supply in your name - a risk you failed to defend yourself against.

[* worst case scenario previous tennant leaves n wldays / weeks before your new tenancy submitting final readings - right or wrong - unknown.  Landlord doesn't check to protect themselves.  Even if correct, landlord keeps lights, heating etc on - has contractors in doing any required works.  Doesn't submit readings as you move in, you don't submit readings, you get billed from last occupiers final readings.]


If you have no readings you have left yourself open to be legally liable for every bill issued since you moved in (or more accurately your tenancy commenced).

And by failing to register and setup the account with day 1 readings and to pay all relavent utility bills since - I mean for 18 months really ? - chances are you are and have been in a major violation of your tenancy agreement.

Which your landlord may well understandably take a very dim view of.  Especially if utility takes them to court for debt - which after 18 months I am amazed they wouldn't be pursuing someone.

You need to establish via any paper bills with actual readings or by contacting utility company - to see what info they have - and establish as good a baseline as possible.

And pay all due bills issued on that basis they issue.

Or any bills they issue in your name based on last good reading basis - including potentially a large proportion of the disputed £300 - and chalk it up as a valuable life lesson.

The lesson being - when move again  - rent (unless specifically included in rent) or buy  - always take day 1 readings and bills in your name - for all applicable utilities - gas, electric, water if metered etc..

Thanks for that explanation.  Yes, i should have covered myself a bit more. In the past my bills were always included in the rent, and with this rental, they were not.  It was an oddball setup from the get go. There was a tenant in here when i moved in and he left soon after and apparently had not put the energy in his name when he lived here for a couple of months.  The energy bills all come to my address, and i have kept all of them over the months.  They looked estimated for the most part, and then a reading was done and the bill got a credit of a 200£ or so as i dont use alot and live alone.   It has gone to collections through Churchill, although Octopus still sends a monthly statement with current readings and charges etc.  So at this point im not sure who to contact.  The hole i dug has become a big pit.  I have the money to cover the energy i have used, so i suppose i could start by calling octopus and explaining the situation and email my tenancy over to them.  Hopefully they can come up with a figure.  I suppose they could remove any charges upto my tenancy signing date and anything afterwards would be what i owed.   Im fine with that if thats the case.  

Scot_39

You might want to post on the debt section of forum.

Never got that far  when niece as a  student had a bill correction/ demand issued 3 months into the tenancy - for use predating it - with a threat of debt agents from EOn.

It could be you need to pay Churchill direct for historic debt plus any fees and certainly set up Octopus account to pay current.  But Octopus may still be able to resolve.

Mobtr

All you need to do is ring Octopus, explain the situation & they should be able to set your account up from the day you moved in. They may ask for a proof of tenancy but they may not if you are accepting the debt. Just ring them before your hole gets any deeper & for future reference, don’t believe everything you read on the internet 

Chris_b2z

Talk to Citizens Advice. You're not the first tenant to have this problem.

Your tenancy agreement will confirm the moving in date and smart meter data 'should' prove your initial readings.

northernsparky

Chris_b2z said:

Talk to Citizens Advice. You're not the first tenant to have this problem.

Your tenancy agreement will confirm the moving in date and smart meter data 'should' prove your initial readings.

Mobtr said:

All you need to do is ring Octopus, explain the situation & they should be able to set your account up from the day you moved in. They may ask for a proof of tenancy but they may not if you are accepting the debt. Just ring them before your hole gets any deeper & for future reference, don’t believe everything you read on the internet 

Sound advice 

- it may be worth taking a photo of your tenancy agreement - showing start date, and email Octopus asking them to bill you from the start of your tenancy agreement ( attaching the photo as proof). 

At least with an e-mail you will have an audit trail 

Good luck

Chris_b2z

Just one more thing. Did you check your inventory document? It may include photos of the meter and/or the meter readings taken just before you moved in.