Buying an untouched 60s house - ASBESTOS?

Section62

Bigphil1474 said:

Alternatively, ask a builder about having it removed and leave it to their professional opinion as to whether a survey is needed.

I wouldn't rely on the opinion of a builder, they aren't professionally qualified to survey and identify asbestos risks.  Unfortunately there are also a great many builders who don't believe asbestos is harmful, or believe myths like you had to work in a shipyard or something to have sufficient exposure to pose a risk to your health.

Even if you don't mind letting the builder kill themselves by taking unnecessary risks with asbestos, you still need to think of yourself and family and if a builder is not aware of (or chooses to ignore) the danger then they are unlikely to be taking precautions to protect you either.

Thurlow40

Bigphil1474 said:

OP, I work in H&S, dealing with commercial buildings, and all commercial buildings pre the year 2,000 could have asbestos in, and all should have an asbestos plan backed up by a survey if necessary. I tend to work to the same principle for somewhere I'm gonna spend most of my life and where my kids and grandkids are going to live/visit. We had asbestos in our artex for 14 years. It was in good condition and we didn't do anything with it other than paint it now and again. Fortunately(?) we had subsidence 15 years ago so insurance had to remove it all. The problem is if you have to drill into it for any reason, the dust can contain fibres that you could breath in - it can take 30 to 40 years for symptoms to show and that exposure to kill you. The more exposure the higher the risk, but some exposure is still a risk. 

I would get an asbestos survey done unless it's in really good condition - the house buyer survey will likely just say that you should get one done as there may be asbestos, so might as well get one anyway. If it's a house that needs a major refurb. then might be better to get rid of the artex now rather than have it sealed or boarded over? Intact asbestos panelling, like you see on garage roofs, is much easier to dispose of.

Alternatively, ask a builder about having it removed and leave it to their professional opinion as to whether a survey is needed.

Thank you so much.  I will do just that, I spoke to a company today actually who said a similar thing.  Thanks again 

stuart45

Section62 said:

Bigphil1474 said:

Alternatively, ask a builder about having it removed and leave it to their professional opinion as to whether a survey is needed.

I wouldn't rely on the opinion of a builder, they aren't professionally qualified to survey and identify asbestos risks.  Unfortunately there are also a great many builders who don't believe asbestos is harmful, or believe myths like you had to work in a shipyard or something to have sufficient exposure to pose a risk to your health.

Even if you don't mind letting the builder kill themselves by taking unnecessary risks with asbestos, you still need to think of yourself and family and if a builder is not aware of (or chooses to ignore) the danger then they are unlikely to be taking precautions to protect you either.

I'd agree with that, and have always worked in the building trade myself. Possibly it's because a lot of us have got used to working on buildings with asbestos in.
Builders are often less concerned about it than the general public, and will offer to remove it a lot cheaper than a specialist. 
A friend of mine used to work in asbestos removal, but packed it up and became an asbestos surveyor. He's quite an authority on anything asbestos related, and told me that nearly all the builders he deals with are incredibly ignorant of even the basic facts about asbestos.

Bigphil1474

The benefit of a licensed asbestos removal company (in theory at least) is that they will not only remove asbestos completely and safely, they will clean up the entire area afterwards, dispose of the waste properly, and do an air clearance tests afterwards to make sure the area is 100% asbestos free. A builder might do a really good job of removing the asbestos, and will undoubtedly charge a lot less, but you won't have the assurance of an air clearance test afterwards. You pay your money you take your choice. 

Section62

stuart45 said:

Section62 said:

Bigphil1474 said:

Alternatively, ask a builder about having it removed and leave it to their professional opinion as to whether a survey is needed.

I wouldn't rely on the opinion of a builder, they aren't professionally qualified to survey and identify asbestos risks.  Unfortunately there are also a great many builders who don't believe asbestos is harmful, or believe myths like you had to work in a shipyard or something to have sufficient exposure to pose a risk to your health.

Even if you don't mind letting the builder kill themselves by taking unnecessary risks with asbestos, you still need to think of yourself and family and if a builder is not aware of (or chooses to ignore) the danger then they are unlikely to be taking precautions to protect you either.

I'd agree with that, and have always worked in the building trade myself. Possibly it's because a lot of us have got used to working on buildings with asbestos in.
Builders are often less concerned about it than the general public, and will offer to remove it a lot cheaper than a specialist. 
A friend of mine used to work in asbestos removal, but packed it up and became an asbestos surveyor. He's quite an authority on anything asbestos related, and told me that nearly all the builders he deals with are incredibly ignorant of even the basic facts about asbestos.

I agree. I think some of that is the general attitude to H&S, not just asbestos.  Often on site you'll see people taking ridiculous risks to cut corners or save time that only their employer gains from, with no personal benefit to themselves.  When you point this out there's a blank look.  Fortunately H&S law has developed to the point where the employers take things a lot more seriously and themessage is filtering through.

With asbestos in particular I think there is an issue with younger people coming up through the industry who haven't worked with asbestos and been part of the dawning realisation that it was killing people. When a risk seems remote it is much easier to ignore: when people doing the same job as you start coughing and gradually decline in health it becomes much more real (parallels with Covid here).

This is one of the reasons I dislike the idea of skimming over artex which is known to contain asbestos.  It is simply leaving a trap for some unsuspecting person in the future - someone's son or daughter who doesn't know it is there and may not know the risks involved.

FlyMeSomewhere79

I work in H&S too and actually teach our staff some asbestos awareness.

I think wallpapering and painting is one thing but knocking a 1960's house about is another and a survey is a good idea though avoid accidentally disturbing the horrible stuff - my uncle used to be a demolition crane driver in the 70's / 80's before there was much h&S awareness of asbestos. He remembers a time when they all had to go for lung screening once it was realised what they might have exposed to whilst knocking down buildings. He and his colleagues sat in the waiting area for their results and one after the other his workmates went in and came out in tears. They've pretty much all died now and my uncle escaped with asbestosis that didn't turn into anything nasty.

GDB2222

About 1% of UK deaths are due to Mesothelioma at the moment, and that proportion is gradually dropping as the peak asbestos usage was in the 60-70's period. Men are roughly 5-10 times more likely than women to get Mesothelioma, most probably because far more men than women were employed in building and similar jobs. 

It's not obvious why spending a lot of money to eradicate asbestos in your home is sensible. Could that money be more effectively spent on a safer car, for example?  Or, on gym membership or following the mediterranean diet? 

FreeBear

GDB2222 said:

About 1% of UK deaths are due to Mesothelioma at the moment, and that proportion is gradually dropping as the peak asbestos usage was in the 60-70's period. Men are roughly 5-10 times more likely than women to get Mesothelioma, most probably because far more men than women were employed in building and similar jobs.

Asbestos was also used in brake shoes/pads - Quite a few mechanics in the motor & railway trades have died from asbestos related illnesses.

Another risk in old properties I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned yet - Paint. Lead, along with other toxic metals such as chromium, was pretty common. So one needs to be careful when stripping & sanding wood.

FlyMeSomewhere79

GDB2222 said:

About 1% of UK deaths are due to Mesothelioma at the moment, and that proportion is gradually dropping as the peak asbestos usage was in the 60-70's period. Men are roughly 5-10 times more likely than women to get Mesothelioma, most probably because far more men than women were employed in building and similar jobs. 

It's not obvious why spending a lot of money to eradicate asbestos in your home is sensible. Could that money be more effectively spent on a safer car, for example?  Or, on gym membership or following the mediterranean diet? 

I'm not sure it was about eradication, I agree as I wouldn't start trying to eradicate from my home but it's about knowing where it is so if the OP starts knocking the house about to renovate, they don't disturb any

Section62

GDB2222 said:

About 1% of UK deaths are due to Mesothelioma at the moment, and that proportion is gradually dropping as the peak asbestos usage was in the 60-70's period. Men are roughly 5-10 times more likely than women to get Mesothelioma, most probably because far more men than women were employed in building and similar jobs.

Death from Mesothelioma is only one outcome of asbestos related disease - there are others, including living long-term with respiratory problems. (That stat is like picking out deaths from one of the rarer forms of lung cancer associated with smoking and then querying whether smoking is bad for you)

There's no need to eradicate asbestos in the home.  Just be aware of what it is, where it is, and what needs to be done to stay safe.