Indemnity insurance for listed building consent

Melanie1972

Hi

Wondering whether anyone has any recent experience with this.  There is a thread on here frrom 2021 but that's old now.

We are buying a listed property which has had some garden rooms erected.  I cannot find any listed building consent or planning for these so it has been suggested we get an indemnity paid for by the vendor.  I'm happy with this providing it's worth the paper it's written on.  But, I'm hearing reports to the contrary.  We will have additional unrelated work done to the house and go through the proper channels, but I don't want to be in a position where a the council demand that the buildings come down because they've come to inspect unrelated work.  Obviously we had a full survey done so the surveyor is aware and the solicitor is aware now that the survey has been made available to her.  I don't want to be mis-sold a policy (via the vendor) that has small print invalidating it because (general wording) a '3rd party' has been made aware (the solicitor and surveyor) or the 'council' has been made aware (by nature of them coming to see unrelated works).

Before anyone comments about not buying the house, it's too late for that

TIA

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster

An policy will protect you from costs incurred. It won't stop the council insisting you remove. 

You can either insist they apply retrospectively or you can after you move. 

user1977

Melanie1972 said:

I don't want to be mis-sold a policy (via the vendor) that has small print invalidating it because (general wording) a '3rd party' has been made aware (the solicitor and surveyor) or the 'council' has been made aware (by nature of them coming to see unrelated works).

Your own solicitor and surveyor are not "third parties" for this purpose - obviously no indemnity policy could ever be enforceable if they were! They just mean you can't broadcast the fact that the insurance exists to e.g. neighbours who then decide to kick up a fuss or to profit from the insurance in some way.

I'm not convinced that the council visiting for an unrelated purpose would be relevant - is it at all likely that planners would be making a visit anyway?

Melanie1972

user1977 said:

Melanie1972 said:

I don't want to be mis-sold a policy (via the vendor) that has small print invalidating it because (general wording) a '3rd party' has been made aware (the solicitor and surveyor) or the 'council' has been made aware (by nature of them coming to see unrelated works).

Your own solicitor and surveyor are not "third parties" for this purpose - obviously no indemnity policy could ever be enforceable if they were! They just mean you can't broadcast the fact that the insurance exists to e.g. neighbours who then decide to kick up a fuss or to profit from the insurance in some way.

I'm not convinced that the council visiting for an unrelated purpose would be relevant - is it at all likely that planners would be making a visit anyway?

Thanks both for the advice.  We will be getting windows replaced and a chimney rebuilt so the council are likely to visit due to that

sheramber

Melanie1972 said:

Hi

Wondering whether anyone has any recent experience with this.  There is a thread on here frrom 2021 but that's old now.

We are buying a listed property which has had some garden rooms erected.  I cannot find any listed building consent or planning for these so it has been suggested we get an indemnity paid for by the vendor.  I'm happy with this providing it's worth the paper it's written on.  But, I'm hearing reports to the contrary.  We will have additional unrelated work done to the house and go through the proper channels, but I don't want to be in a position where a the council demand that the buildings come down because they've come to inspect unrelated work.  Obviously we had a full survey done so the surveyor is aware and the solicitor is aware now that the survey has been made available to her.  I don't want to be mis-sold a policy (via the vendor) that has small print invalidating it because (general wording) a '3rd party' has been made aware (the solicitor and surveyor) or the 'council' has been made aware (by nature of them coming to see unrelated works).

Before anyone comments about not buying the house, it's too late for that

TIA

• Unlike breaches of planning control which become immune from enforcement action if no action is taken within the relevant time limits, breaches of the listed building consent regime never become immune. It is particularly important to be aware of this if you are taking over a listed building which has been altered in the past. You need to be sure that any works carried out to it have been authorised or did not need consent.
• Carrying out unauthorised works to a listed building is an offence, irrespective of whether a listed building enforcement notice has been served. 

https://www.planningaid.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/204857992-What-is-a-listed-building-enforcement-notice#:~:text=Unlike%20breaches%20of%20planning%20control,been%20altered%20in%20the%20past.

ThisIsWeird

sheramber said:

• Unlike breaches of planning control which become immune from enforcement action if no action is taken within the relevant time limits, breaches of the listed building consent regime never become immune. It is particularly important to be aware of this if you are taking over a listed building which has been altered in the past. You need to be sure that any works carried out to it have been authorised or did not need consent.
• Carrying out unauthorised works to a listed building is an offence, irrespective of whether a listed building enforcement notice has been served. 

https://www.planningaid.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/204857992-What-is-a-listed-building-enforcement-notice#:~:text=Unlike%20breaches%20of%20planning%20control,been%20altered%20in%20the%20past.

Which organisation is actually concerned with breaches of listed building consents and breaches? The LA, or 'Historic England', or who?

What are the chances of the LA's Building Control bod taking an interest in this? I'd imagine quite low.

Melanie, it would make sense to have an indemnity policy to fully cover this, especially given what Sheramber has said above. I suspect it'll be a case of hoping for the best, but accepting that the worst could happen - you could be obliged to take it down. But the IndPolicy should cover you for this cost at least. So, worst case = you lose these rooms?

I would hazard that the chances of that happening are very low - it seems pretty clear that these rooms have not caused any issue to anyone up until now, and presumably have not even been noticed at all. How long have they been up for? If the worst threatens to happen, you'll always have recourse to an appeal to the Sec of State.

Make sure you have cracking LegProt included in your insurance, a solid IndemPolicy from the vendor, and just relax and cross your toes.

Understand that the worst could happen, but almost certainly won't - unless this is a really historic or significant building?

Doozergirl

ThisIsWeird said:

sheramber said:

• Unlike breaches of planning control which become immune from enforcement action if no action is taken within the relevant time limits, breaches of the listed building consent regime never become immune. It is particularly important to be aware of this if you are taking over a listed building which has been altered in the past. You need to be sure that any works carried out to it have been authorised or did not need consent.
• Carrying out unauthorised works to a listed building is an offence, irrespective of whether a listed building enforcement notice has been served. 

https://www.planningaid.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/204857992-What-is-a-listed-building-enforcement-notice#:~:text=Unlike%20breaches%20of%20planning%20control,been%20altered%20in%20the%20past.

Which organisation is actually concerned with breaches of listed building consents and breaches? The LA, or 'Historic England', or who?

What are the chances of the LA's Building Control bod taking an interest in this? I'd imagine quite low.

Melanie, it would make sense to have an indemnity policy to fully cover this, especially given what Sheramber has said above. I suspect it'll be a case of hoping for the best, but accepting that the worst could happen - you could be obliged to take it down. But the IndPolicy should cover you for this cost at least. So, worst case = you lose these rooms?

I would hazard that the chances of that happening are very low - it seems pretty clear that these rooms have not caused any issue to anyone up until now, and presumably have not even been noticed at all. How long have they been up for? If the worst threatens to happen, you'll always have recourse to an appeal to the Sec of State.

Make sure you have cracking LegProt included in your insurance, a solid IndemPolicy from the vendor, and just relax and cross your toes.

Understand that the worst could happen, but almost certainly won't - unless this is a really historic or significant building?

It's not a building control issue, it's a planning issue.  

New windows are likely to trigger an application for Listed Building Consent, in which case you're potentially inviting the Conservation Officer to the property where there are new buildings that do not have permission but that can have enforcement action taken at any time. 

I don't share your complete optimism.  The building is Grade 2 Listed - that means it is "really historic and significant". 

The OP needs to satisfy themselves of what the policy offers them and to ensure that they're not overpaying for the house in the event that enforcement action occurs.