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Builder refusing to communicate or work
RGEARY1981
Posts: 6 Forumite
Hi. I'm afraid this is long!
We engaged a builder in December 2022 to do a loft conversion @ £45,000 inc VAT. We paid 40% upfront for materials and to secure a build slot. The builder was well known locally, checkatrade accredited and VAT registered. He was fully insured.
The build was delayed by the structural engineer and planning but we had everything in place by June 2023 and the architect passed the project to our builder as main contractor.
The builder started in October and the roof quickly came off. The main contractor supervised this and then moved on to another job, leaving a project manager.
On 10 Nov. We were called to the site having moved out while the roof was off. The project manager stated there was a structural issue at ground floor and we needed steels. We reengaged the structural engineer. He confirmed the situation and specced additional steel. Our builder upped the quote by £20,000 plus VAT including 2 new windows that would be needed and work to our kitchen, which we were already replacing with a separate contractor.
Unlike the initial quote, this was not put in writing. The builder requested payment upfront for this work, which we paid. We also paid 20% of the original quote which was due after week 2.
The steels took a long time to spec but on 15 December 23 they were ordered. At this point the build slowed with our roof under temporary cover.
We moved back in and camped to save money before having Christmas at relatives. On 4th January, while we were away they started preparatory work for the steels. The kitchen was removed and walls removed and propped with akroprops - 20 in total!
We chased the steel on January 12th. The builder was evasive. This went on until the 24th when the builder admitted the steels had not been fabricated. We complained and he stated he would sort it. On 4th of February we sent an official email asking for receipts that the steel was ordered. He couldn't provide it but on February 12th he announced the steels would arrive the next day.
We then had a great 2 weeks. Steels went in and work restarted on the roof. The front roof was slated and the rear roof covered in GRP but the cladding and glazing was still "on order". The main contractor was on site daily and he told us he had fired the project manager.
On 26th February the existing windows were removed and new frames built. The builder asked for a further 10%. We paid.
Work stalled. The windows were on order. A week went by with 1 subcontractor on site boarding out the loft. We asked for an update on the windows and were told a remeasure was required. On the 3rd of March we received the window design and accepted. The builder said they wre on order. On the 4th he asked for a further £10,000 taking us to very nearly the full contract cost. He said he needed it to buy the windows. We paid very reluctantly as we were desperate to get weather tight. We stated there was only £5,000 left of the quote to pay and we would hold this. The builder agreed.
On 21 March we chased the builder. Work had slowed and we needed windows. He ignored us. We emailed, phoned and messaged. On 22 March, in desperation, we phoned the window company. No payment had been made.
The builder sent a weird email claiming to have saved us money by going with s different supplier. We asked for details and he ignored us.
The subcontractor was still coming to site but was very down in the dumps. He eventually told us he had not been paid for 3 weeks. We then had a visit from an electrician looking for our builder. He was owed £5k, then a carpenter £7k. Then we were told he hadn't paid any subcontractors for 3 weeks and wasn't taking calls. Our subbie went to the builders merchant for supplies and was told the account was maxed out.
All calls to the builder were ignored as were emails etc. I went to his home address but no answer. We were worried he might be ill.
He finally answered on March 28th. He was suffering a mental health crisis.
We were sympathetic but asked for details of the windows and plans for how to complete the job. He went silent. The subcontractor stopped coming.
It's now been 2 weeks with no contact. He won't take calls or answer emails. He is still going to other sites and has even taking on new work in the last 2 weeks but refuses to talk to us. I query the mental health excuse when he is clearly working.
The last 2 week's storms have done terrible damage. Our house and next door are leaking, they are furious. He ignores all calls about this. We have been roofless - Tarp only - for 20 weeks, have no windows in 4 openings for 8 weeks and have had no kitchen since January 4th.
Citizens Advice have told us to issue a letter under the ConsumerRightsAct, which we've done but today a scheduled Building Regulations inspection has told us that some of the work already done isn't up to scratch. They also stated there are significant Health and Safety issues that need addressing and that the site was a disgrace. When we told him we were living in it and that the contractor knew this he was livid. He found highly flammable and toxic liquids in unmarked containers and unsafe ladders.
He tried to contact the builder but no answer. He reported to HSE and I have now done the same.
In total we are £65,000 into a £70,000 project and now we have unordered glazing, cladding and slates with a builder who is clearly in financial trouble and won't communicate and a potentially dangerous site with work not fit for building regulations.
Do we cut and run and engage a new firm? Can we do this? Is there anything we can do to get him to talk?
Any advice gratefully received. Apologies for the length of the post. I will try to clarify anything but please be gentle. I feel like a total fool for not seeing it was going wrong and not backing the little voice that said something wasn't right when the steels weren't ordered as promised.
As a final aside, I have now found another site of his in a very similar situation. And another couple has approached us who have kicked him off their site for poor workmanship.
It's a mess.
Richard
We engaged a builder in December 2022 to do a loft conversion @ £45,000 inc VAT. We paid 40% upfront for materials and to secure a build slot. The builder was well known locally, checkatrade accredited and VAT registered. He was fully insured.
The build was delayed by the structural engineer and planning but we had everything in place by June 2023 and the architect passed the project to our builder as main contractor.
The builder started in October and the roof quickly came off. The main contractor supervised this and then moved on to another job, leaving a project manager.
On 10 Nov. We were called to the site having moved out while the roof was off. The project manager stated there was a structural issue at ground floor and we needed steels. We reengaged the structural engineer. He confirmed the situation and specced additional steel. Our builder upped the quote by £20,000 plus VAT including 2 new windows that would be needed and work to our kitchen, which we were already replacing with a separate contractor.
Unlike the initial quote, this was not put in writing. The builder requested payment upfront for this work, which we paid. We also paid 20% of the original quote which was due after week 2.
The steels took a long time to spec but on 15 December 23 they were ordered. At this point the build slowed with our roof under temporary cover.
We moved back in and camped to save money before having Christmas at relatives. On 4th January, while we were away they started preparatory work for the steels. The kitchen was removed and walls removed and propped with akroprops - 20 in total!
We chased the steel on January 12th. The builder was evasive. This went on until the 24th when the builder admitted the steels had not been fabricated. We complained and he stated he would sort it. On 4th of February we sent an official email asking for receipts that the steel was ordered. He couldn't provide it but on February 12th he announced the steels would arrive the next day.
We then had a great 2 weeks. Steels went in and work restarted on the roof. The front roof was slated and the rear roof covered in GRP but the cladding and glazing was still "on order". The main contractor was on site daily and he told us he had fired the project manager.
On 26th February the existing windows were removed and new frames built. The builder asked for a further 10%. We paid.
Work stalled. The windows were on order. A week went by with 1 subcontractor on site boarding out the loft. We asked for an update on the windows and were told a remeasure was required. On the 3rd of March we received the window design and accepted. The builder said they wre on order. On the 4th he asked for a further £10,000 taking us to very nearly the full contract cost. He said he needed it to buy the windows. We paid very reluctantly as we were desperate to get weather tight. We stated there was only £5,000 left of the quote to pay and we would hold this. The builder agreed.
On 21 March we chased the builder. Work had slowed and we needed windows. He ignored us. We emailed, phoned and messaged. On 22 March, in desperation, we phoned the window company. No payment had been made.
The builder sent a weird email claiming to have saved us money by going with s different supplier. We asked for details and he ignored us.
The subcontractor was still coming to site but was very down in the dumps. He eventually told us he had not been paid for 3 weeks. We then had a visit from an electrician looking for our builder. He was owed £5k, then a carpenter £7k. Then we were told he hadn't paid any subcontractors for 3 weeks and wasn't taking calls. Our subbie went to the builders merchant for supplies and was told the account was maxed out.
All calls to the builder were ignored as were emails etc. I went to his home address but no answer. We were worried he might be ill.
He finally answered on March 28th. He was suffering a mental health crisis.
We were sympathetic but asked for details of the windows and plans for how to complete the job. He went silent. The subcontractor stopped coming.
It's now been 2 weeks with no contact. He won't take calls or answer emails. He is still going to other sites and has even taking on new work in the last 2 weeks but refuses to talk to us. I query the mental health excuse when he is clearly working.
The last 2 week's storms have done terrible damage. Our house and next door are leaking, they are furious. He ignores all calls about this. We have been roofless - Tarp only - for 20 weeks, have no windows in 4 openings for 8 weeks and have had no kitchen since January 4th.
Citizens Advice have told us to issue a letter under the ConsumerRightsAct, which we've done but today a scheduled Building Regulations inspection has told us that some of the work already done isn't up to scratch. They also stated there are significant Health and Safety issues that need addressing and that the site was a disgrace. When we told him we were living in it and that the contractor knew this he was livid. He found highly flammable and toxic liquids in unmarked containers and unsafe ladders.
He tried to contact the builder but no answer. He reported to HSE and I have now done the same.
In total we are £65,000 into a £70,000 project and now we have unordered glazing, cladding and slates with a builder who is clearly in financial trouble and won't communicate and a potentially dangerous site with work not fit for building regulations.
Do we cut and run and engage a new firm? Can we do this? Is there anything we can do to get him to talk?
Any advice gratefully received. Apologies for the length of the post. I will try to clarify anything but please be gentle. I feel like a total fool for not seeing it was going wrong and not backing the little voice that said something wasn't right when the steels weren't ordered as promised.
As a final aside, I have now found another site of his in a very similar situation. And another couple has approached us who have kicked him off their site for poor workmanship.
It's a mess.
Richard
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Comments
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As you say, what a mess.
Have you got legal cover on your home insurance? With the sums already spent, plus those that are going to be needed to complete the job, legal advice would seem essential. You might speak to a local solicitor. Some offer a free initial consultation, at which you could outline the situation and see what their strategy would be.
The problem I foresee is that even if you take legal action, it sounds like the builder won't have the means to pay, and you are just one of many people he owes money to.0 -
Sorry to hear, LTD or sole trader OP?
If an LTD it’ll probably fold if he owes a lot, if a sole trader he may have a house or he may have 95% of it mortgaged.Very difficult, if you have the money I’d focus on getting the roof and windows fitted.
Is this kind of thing not fraud? Where else in life can you take £10k for goods and walk away without supplying?In the game of chess you can never let your adversary see your pieces0 -
It won't be home insurance during a major rebuildAylesbury_Duck said:As you say, what a mess.
Have you got legal cover on your home insurance? With the sums already spent, plus those that are going to be needed to complete the job, legal advice would seem essential. You might speak to a local solicitor. Some offer a free initial consultation, at which you could outline the situation and see what their strategy would be.
The problem I foresee is that even if you take legal action, it sounds like the builder won't have the means to pay, and you are just one of many people he owes money to.0 -
I thought that any legal cover appended to any live policy would still be accessible, even if the rebuild itself sits outside of the policy.35har1old said:
It won't be home insurance during a major rebuildAylesbury_Duck said:As you say, what a mess.
Have you got legal cover on your home insurance? With the sums already spent, plus those that are going to be needed to complete the job, legal advice would seem essential. You might speak to a local solicitor. Some offer a free initial consultation, at which you could outline the situation and see what their strategy would be.
The problem I foresee is that even if you take legal action, it sounds like the builder won't have the means to pay, and you are just one of many people he owes money to.0 -
Thanks. Everyone.
No LP on home insurance. Insurers knows of the work but the damage isn't covered.
He's a sole trader but doesn't own a house - in his mother in laws name, I did land registry search yesterday.
Police say not fraud as he hasn't refused to cone back yet.
I'm meeting the other potential victims today.
Trading standards hard to access as Citizens Advice actingcas gatekeepers. HSE are calling today for more info.
Am I missing any avenue?
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I don't think so. Unless he comes back to the table, you're looking at getting another builder in to assess the costs of putting right what's wrong, then taking the first builder to court for those costs plus any money you've paid him for which you've had no materials or work. Given the probable size of that sum, I'd get proper legal advice before proceeding, so you understand the costs of court action, but also a realistic assessment of getting paid in the likely event you are successful in court. It sounds like there are others in the same situation, so how realistic is recovery of anything?0
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Sorry to hear OPRGEARY1981 said:
He's a sole trader but doesn't own a house - in his mother in laws name, I did land registry search yesterday.
When high court enforcement reclaim money they don't really want to take goods, they just hope people are attached to their stuff and pay.
What does the average person have that would cover this kind of money, even if the builder has a load of tools, at auction after fees I can't imagine much is there.
A house or vehicles seems the best bet but if he doesn't own the house and vehicles are leased on or finance I don't think they can be taken and it doesn't really leave anything else to be taken.
Not that this helps now but, sometimes on the DIY board posers say it's normal to pay something upfront and sure for a rewire a few hundred quid for some materials or to secure a date probably isn't the end of the world for most people but when it comes to 5 figure sums it creates a real unbalance and whilst some people don't pay their bills, they probably have stuff they don't want taken away.
I'm surprised there isn't some kind of third party service to hold the money when it comes to big jobs like.
Horrible situation OP and I can only really offer my sympathy
In the game of chess you can never let your adversary see your pieces0 -
In the opening lines of the first post, the OP told us,'The builder was well known locally, checkatrade accredited and VAT registered. He was fully insured.'
That is extremely useful to know. I think the time has now come to make a claim on his indemnity insurance.
For those unfamiliar with the building trade, Park Insurance defines it as:
Builders’ indemnity insurance is designed to protect your business financially if a claim for compensation is made against you.
If someone makes a claim against you, you can relax knowing that your builders’ indemnity insurance will cover:- The legal costs to defend your case.
- Any compensation awarded.
- The costs associated with having to put right any mistake.
https://parkinsurance.co.uk/builders-indemnity-insurance-what-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=Builders'%20indemnity%20insurance%20is%20designed,costs%20of%20defending%20a%20claim.
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Good spot, and hopefully this gives OP another route to explore.Alderbank said:In the opening lines of the first post, the OP told us,'The builder was well known locally, checkatrade accredited and VAT registered. He was fully insured.'
That is extremely useful to know. I think the time has now come to make a claim on his indemnity insurance.
For those unfamiliar with the building trade, Park Insurance defines it as:
Builders’ indemnity insurance is designed to protect your business financially if a claim for compensation is made against you.
If someone makes a claim against you, you can relax knowing that your builders’ indemnity insurance will cover:- The legal costs to defend your case.
- Any compensation awarded.
- The costs associated with having to put right any mistake.
https://parkinsurance.co.uk/builders-indemnity-insurance-what-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=Builders'%20indemnity%20insurance%20is%20designed,costs%20of%20defending%20a%20claim.
There is of course the possibility that a builder in trouble hasn't kept his insurance policy updated.0 -
But wouldn't the insurance claim have to made by the builder rather than one of his customers?
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