VW Tiguan power steering issue + potential dispute

uhuss11

Hi folks

Situation below 

1.Went to the shops came back to car and dash was lit up and power steering, parking sensors etc not working. Red light steering but car was drivable.

2.Took to mechanic who checked obd and it returned loss of communication with power steering module and the fix is to replace the steering rack.

3.mechanic ordered steering rack but said it was faulty and that I need a brand new steering rack. Mechanic parked the car on the side street, but I thought not safe and rather park on my drive but mechanic would not return car unless I paid in advance and promised refund for the steering rack. ( Still waiting for refund but it is stated on the invoice £1000 parts n labour)

3.Put an order in for steering rack refurb from western power steering who said it's like new genuine part with 2 year warranty, paid direct myself.

4.car fitted with the new rack and original steering rack returned to me, but issue still exists. Fault code that remains is lost communication with steering column module. Mechanic said to could be ECU that needs replacing. I said I'll get second opinion from VAG specialist.

So I am going to take it to VAG next week and get second opinion, also will ask if they can check if the original rack had an issue or did the mechanic misdiagnose the problem. 

What are your thoughts on the issue and would I be able to claim refund based on reasonable skill and care if the original part has no issue.

Thanks 

Mildly_Miffed

When you say you're taking it to a "VAG Specialist" - do you mean a franchise dealer, or do you mean an independent specialist garage?

If a dealer, bear in mind that they will ONLY fit manufacturer parts, at manufacturer prices.

You don't say whether it's an original shape or second shape Tiguan. But I'd have started from the assumption that a fauit code for loss of communication with the power steering ECU was either on the car side of the CANBUS or in the ECU itself, rather than a problem with the rack.

uhuss11

Mildly_Miffed said:

When you say you're taking it to a "VAG Specialist" - do you mean a franchise dealer, or do you mean an independent specialist garage?

If a dealer, bear in mind that they will ONLY fit manufacturer parts, at manufacturer prices.

You don't say whether it's an original shape or second shape Tiguan. But I'd have started from the assumption that a fauit code for loss of communication with the power steering ECU was either on the car side of the CANBUS or in the ECU itself, rather than a problem with the rack.

Independent, well that is what the mechanic suggested. I still have the original part.

T.T.D

The problems with modern vehicles and mechanics. 

There’s mechanics out there that have not updated their skill set.

They Plug in a computer to a computer and reads what the screen said and starts replacing said parts on the fault list on his screen. When that fails to cure the problem and it persists. The repair then falls out of their skill set and the customer has lost money and no further on in the repairs their vehicle.

There can be many reasons as to why a module fails to communicate. If the voltage drops or the module experiences spikes out of parameters for example due to a loose or corroded plug or a chaffed through wire, broken relay or faulty fuse box and the module doesn’t see the correct voltage supply and it can throw a very broad non descriptive code for Example:

manufacture code: P0043567 Steering module check failed, connection failure voltage high see manufacturer for details.
(I made this up for my examples purposes).

You need a mechanic or specialist in VAG with Vagcom diagnostics tools to interrogate the system further and perform module tests relay tests and more. Some 20k signing and dancing generic diagnostic tools can’t interrogate a manufactures ECU and Body control modules in detail. A Manufacturrs tool can.

You also need a mechanic who has all the tools to search out faulty wires, faulty ground and has wiring diagrams to follow to fully understand modern cars and Electrical systems and how to interpret them to fix them. 

You may think “what’s the parking sensors got to do with steering failing?” Well the car is kind of telling you why, “why's the lane assist going crazy, why are my steering buttons only half working?”

These seemingly unrelated faults coming up are on the same hardware and software channels in the ECU. So for Example parking sensors failing may be a result of the lane assist feature sensing a faulty parking sensor,
And shutting down the lane assist software which may cause a fault within the power steering module or vice versa and mimic a power steering fault.

A power steering motor having a power failure or motor failure may cause the Module to see an electrical fault go out of parameters, the governing main ECU monitoring that module sees the spike in electrical load in its software and shuts down that module to protect it then everything controlled by that module will show as being a fault on the dash. 

So having a mechanic that investigates more than just saying computer can’t see module modules broke, can only get module if you buy a new steering rack or steering column and associated parts. Replace and see what happens. That a mechanic playing monopoly with your money!

If the mechanics tools can’t code in the new module and clear out the codes in the ECU for the module to work properly the new part will act like the faulty part because the ECU is in protection mode of that module based on the logged error codes and or uncoded module.

You are doing the right thing by seeking a new mechanic. So long as he isn’t a computer sheep that follows the words on a screen. 

 I would recommend going to a independent specialist in that brand and model if it’s a new problem they want to know what fixes it to make them better at their jobs and bring in new and more work, if it’s a problem they have seen many times they will save you money and go in and do what needs doing and hand the car back quickly.

uhuss11

T.T.D said:

The problems with modern vehicles and mechanics. 

There’s mechanics out there that have not updated their skill set.

They Plug in a computer to a computer and reads what the screen said and starts replacing said parts on the fault list on his screen. When that fails to cure the problem and it persists. The repair then falls out of their skill set and the customer has lost money and no further on in the repairs their vehicle.

There can be many reasons as to why a module fails to communicate. If the voltage drops or the module experiences spikes out of parameters for example due to a loose or corroded plug or a chaffed through wire, broken relay or faulty fuse box and the module doesn’t see the correct voltage supply and it can throw a very broad non descriptive code for Example:

manufacture code: P0043567 Steering module check failed, connection failure voltage high see manufacturer for details.
(I made this up for my examples purposes).

You need a mechanic or specialist in VAG with Vagcom diagnostics tools to interrogate the system further and perform module tests relay tests and more. Some 20k signing and dancing generic diagnostic tools can’t interrogate a manufactures ECU and Body control modules in detail. A Manufacturrs tool can.

You also need a mechanic who has all the tools to search out faulty wires, faulty ground and has wiring diagrams to follow to fully understand modern cars and Electrical systems and how to interpret them to fix them. 

You may think “what’s the parking sensors got to do with steering failing?” Well the car is kind of telling you why, “why's the lane assist going crazy, why are my steering buttons only half working?”

These seemingly unrelated faults coming up are on the same hardware and software channels in the ECU. So for Example parking sensors failing may be a result of the lane assist feature sensing a faulty parking sensor,
And shutting down the lane assist software which may cause a fault within the power steering module or vice versa and mimic a power steering fault.

A power steering motor having a power failure or motor failure may cause the Module to see an electrical fault go out of parameters, the governing main ECU monitoring that module sees the spike in electrical load in its software and shuts down that module to protect it then everything controlled by that module will show as being a fault on the dash. 

So having a mechanic that investigates more than just saying computer can’t see module modules broke, can only get module if you buy a new steering rack or steering column and associated parts. Replace and see what happens. That a mechanic playing monopoly with your money!

If the mechanics tools can’t code in the new module and clear out the codes in the ECU for the module to work properly the new part will act like the faulty part because the ECU is in protection mode of that module based on the logged error codes and or uncoded module.

You are doing the right thing by seeking a new mechanic. So long as he isn’t a computer sheep that follows the words on a screen. 

 I would recommend going to a independent specialist in that brand and model if it’s a new problem they want to know what fixes it to make them better at their jobs and bring in new and more work, if it’s a problem they have seen many times they will save you money and go in and do what needs doing and hand the car back quickly.

Thanks yes I've booked it in for next week at vag specialist, bought the car 7 months ago just out of warranty, and £1000 out of pocket, which included them hiring an electrician to check current and wiring etc. I'm no expert so I trusted their word and reports they produced.

I did also get second opinion from another shop, they suggested the same, and I agreed to replace the part with my local shop. On the bright side, the mechanic also said I need a new dealer part of £2000+, fortunately I went with a reconditioned unit priced at £650.

If the issue is easily fixable by the vag indi and a report is provided is it worth seeking compensation/partial or further via small claims.

I was to hasty as the vag was fully booked for 2 weeks, been without a car for a month now. Lessons learned.

uhuss11

T.T.D said:

The problems with modern vehicles and mechanics. 

There’s mechanics out there that have not updated their skill set.

They Plug in a computer to a computer and reads what the screen said and starts replacing said parts on the fault list on his screen. When that fails to cure the problem and it persists. The repair then falls out of their skill set and the customer has lost money and no further on in the repairs their vehicle.

There can be many reasons as to why a module fails to communicate. If the voltage drops or the module experiences spikes out of parameters for example due to a loose or corroded plug or a chaffed through wire, broken relay or faulty fuse box and the module doesn’t see the correct voltage supply and it can throw a very broad non descriptive code for Example:

manufacture code: P0043567 Steering module check failed, connection failure voltage high see manufacturer for details.
(I made this up for my examples purposes).

You need a mechanic or specialist in VAG with Vagcom diagnostics tools to interrogate the system further and perform module tests relay tests and more. Some 20k signing and dancing generic diagnostic tools can’t interrogate a manufactures ECU and Body control modules in detail. A Manufacturrs tool can.

You also need a mechanic who has all the tools to search out faulty wires, faulty ground and has wiring diagrams to follow to fully understand modern cars and Electrical systems and how to interpret them to fix them. 

You may think “what’s the parking sensors got to do with steering failing?” Well the car is kind of telling you why, “why's the lane assist going crazy, why are my steering buttons only half working?”

These seemingly unrelated faults coming up are on the same hardware and software channels in the ECU. So for Example parking sensors failing may be a result of the lane assist feature sensing a faulty parking sensor,
And shutting down the lane assist software which may cause a fault within the power steering module or vice versa and mimic a power steering fault.

A power steering motor having a power failure or motor failure may cause the Module to see an electrical fault go out of parameters, the governing main ECU monitoring that module sees the spike in electrical load in its software and shuts down that module to protect it then everything controlled by that module will show as being a fault on the dash. 

So having a mechanic that investigates more than just saying computer can’t see module modules broke, can only get module if you buy a new steering rack or steering column and associated parts. Replace and see what happens. That a mechanic playing monopoly with your money!

If the mechanics tools can’t code in the new module and clear out the codes in the ECU for the module to work properly the new part will act like the faulty part because the ECU is in protection mode of that module based on the logged error codes and or uncoded module.

You are doing the right thing by seeking a new mechanic. So long as he isn’t a computer sheep that follows the words on a screen. 

 I would recommend going to a independent specialist in that brand and model if it’s a new problem they want to know what fixes it to make them better at their jobs and bring in new and more work, if it’s a problem they have seen many times they will save you money and go in and do what needs doing and hand the car back quickly.

What are the chances of getting refund on labour costs at least, as the car has the same issues after the repair. 

And the best way to request a refund call or get it in writing.

jimjames

I had a very similar problem with my Tiguan. Dash lit up like a Christmas tree and lost power steering with similar error codes to you. Before I spent out on a new steering rack I replaced the battery which resolved the issue. Problem is when the battery gets old and voltage drops as you start the car it can cause the loss of comms which triggers all the error lights. New battery was a lot cheaper than the rack but did need to be a special AGM battery. Maybe one to try if you haven't paid out yet

Goudy

jimjames said:

I had a very similar problem with my Tiguan. Dash lit up like a Christmas tree and lost power steering with similar error codes to you. Before I spent out on a new steering rack I replaced the battery which resolved the issue. Problem is when the battery gets old and voltage drops as you start the car it can cause the loss of comms which triggers all the error lights. New battery was a lot cheaper than the rack but did need to be a special AGM battery. Maybe one to try if you haven't paid out yet

This is very very common these days.

Most modern power steering is electrically operated. (EPAS)
The days of hydraulic pumps, racks and pipes are going and instead electric motors assist the steering, though some still use hydraulics but the pump is ran by an electrical motor rather than the engine.

Obviously these electric motors are power hungry and as the battery ages, it loses the ability to run the electrical assisted steering.

Short tripping a car, like repeated short runs to the local shops etc will hammer the battery quicker as the engine isn't running long enough to recharge the battery properly.
This leaves less and less power in the battery each time until it fails to operate the steering.

Years ago if the battery was failing it would just refuse to energise the start motor rely and you got a load of relay clicking, but as they are now so sensitive to battery power, the EPAS is usually the first thing to go and the battery is the first place to look.

VW offer some help with the steering warning light on their website, pity you didn't check first.
Power Steering Yellow Warning Light | Amber | Volkswagen UK

uhuss11

I've asked the mechanic to check the battery, they said they've seen this many times and the only fix was a brand new steering rack why! I have no idea, they are doing full diagnostics now.

uhuss11

So took it for second opinion no fault codes as steering rack is not communicating, vag mechanic is saying needs a genuine steering rack. Supplier saying their steering rack is genuine.

Battery was bad took to Kwik fit for replacement, but issue still persists.

Waiting on supplier to advise. I do not have a clue now.

Goudy

Maybe ask if the new rack needs programming to the car.
This is often called Proxy Alignment and not to be confused with actual, physical wheel alignment. 

It's not unusual these days that electronically controlled parts like this need matching/programming to the cars main ECU, otherwise it doesn't know where it's at.

I would think it would need to know where straight ahead and each ends of the steering are electronically.

It's often the same case when fitting a new battery. As most cars now "Smart Charge" they need to be told the battery is new.