Parking Charge for not entering Reg Number

Mugelbbub

HI All, Hope you and yours keeping safe and well.

Wondering if someone can give me some constructive guidance here.

22/02/24 I parked in a Britannia Car Park. Was torrential rain, the parking meter would not accept card, another meter would not accept, then the first meter not accept a second card so I deferred to coinage and got my ticket but, in the rush did not enter my reg number least it did not show up on the ticket. Maybe it was the machine.
Anyhow. I get a Parking Charge Notice from Britannia stating 'Failed to make valid Payment' which I contest sending a copy of the receipt/ticket for the date and time of the PCN.
29/03/22 I get their decision which includes; 

- "Reduced Rate: £20"

- "A Parking Charge Notice was issued to your vehicle because you have failed to validate your stay or make a valid payment."    -  nb.   my note here that  that the original PCN did not mention "failed to validate your stay"  only 'Failed to make valid Payment'.        

Then a load of references to 'Code of Practice' that are not relevant to this circumstances albeit one mentions "(A ticket is purchased or stay is validated)" inferring they are alternatives.

then mention of being a member of the BPA followed by 

"The signage in the car park states that you must “Enter the FULL and correct vehicle registration"   when paying the tariff  

but  it only says on the meter "Please enter the FULL and correct vehicle registration on the payment machine when paying the tariff".  this reads as a request and not a condition, as they are inferring by the comment above, of the contract penalised by a charge.

The only terms beyond those on site of  the car park are those you are directed to online which only cover pre bookings and so have no bearing on this.

Without explicitly accepting that I in fact proved I paid for parking they are reducing the charge to £20 to cover their cost of inconvenience stated as;

"We have reviewed the transaction data for the date of your visit and we have been unable to find a

ticket or validation, which corresponds to your full and correct vehicle registration number.

However, taking into consideration your additional comments/evidence we believe a keying error

has occurred when entering the VRM at the validation or pay machine.

British Parking Association Code of Practice – Major Keying Errors

17.4B It is appreciated that in issuing a PCN in these instances, the operator will have incurred

charges including but not limited to the DVLA fee and other processing costs, therefore we believe

that it is reasonable to seek to recover some of these costs by making a modest charge to the

motorist of no more than £20 for a 14-day period from when the keying error was identified before

reverting to the charge amount at the point of appeal.

In line with BPA guidelines we have discounted the value of the Parking Charge Notice to £20.00."

I related the issues to them gain and said since the original charge was for failing to pay and I had proved otherwise AND that they was no contractual stipulation for the Reg number I felt they made a mistake BUT they just reiterated their decision 

I know it is only £20 but it feels a bit of a liberty with spurious grounds since it is not stated anywhere that the absence of a reg is contractually required or subject of penalty.

I don't want to appeal to POPLA because of the bad press they have so I feel like just sitting on it and waiting if they want to go court action for it as feel will be a fairer option than POPLA.

can anyone give me a guide on where I maybe stand.  

Thanks in advance

DE_612183

have you still got the ticket you bought for cash?

Coupon-mad

Yes your choices are pay £20 or wait to defend a court claim. You should also complain to the landowner.  They might well be on your side and insist in full cancellation.

This time next year they won't be allowed to charge that £20, as the Government has recognised this is unfair and the new statutory Code of Practice will say all keying error cases should not cause a PCN (and where appealed, they must be cancelled).

Le_Kirk

You might ask why their system allowed you to buy a ticket for a car that wasn't in the car park, I.e. VRM not found as it was blank! Oh, of course they won't make any money that way!

Mugelbbub

Hi Guys, Sorry not responded earlier

Yes I still have the ticket I bought for cash and sent them a copy.

in regard to the 'keying error"  where they said ... "It is not feasible to calibrate the ANPR system to recognise whether the value entered is valid or not. "   

I suggested "well you could."

• The ANPR monitors reg numbers going in and out and if a reg is entered that has not come in then it is rejected.
• If the ANPR knows the reg's that have come in and are not already entered and can autocomplete as you type.
• If a Reg number is your prerequisite then if it is not entered then the machine should not complete the transaction and issue a ticket as it is then not compliant with your 'apparent' requirements and is then inviting this very inconvenience to yourselves and the customer which is unreasonable.

        You seem to have then a ANPR not fit for purpose and you impose its failings on a good faith customer.

but it doesn't matter because they don't engage in anything you say after their appeal decision in any case. I am still emailing them asking for evidence of the requirement to enter reg.  but  Should I just appeal to POPLA? Is it worth it?

Thanks

Mugelbbub

Also guys, How might I find out who the landowner is?   Thanks

Mugelbbub

HI Coupon-mad 

Are they allowed to charge the £20 and I am liable to pay even though the PCN was not for the Reg keying nor does it say the Keying is a requisite of the parking?  

Thanks

Coupon-mad

Yes, they are allowed.

As I said, you don't have to pay; up to you:

"your choices are pay £20 or wait to defend a court claim. You should also complain to the landowner.  They might well be on your side and insist in full cancellation."

suzi_singer

Mugelbbub said:

Hi Guys, Sorry not responded earlier

Yes I still have the ticket I bought for cash and sent them a copy.

in regard to the 'keying error"  where they said ... "It is not feasible to calibrate the ANPR system to recognise whether the value entered is valid or not. "   

I suggested "well you could."

• The ANPR monitors reg numbers going in and out and if a reg is entered that has not come in then it is rejected.
• If the ANPR knows the reg's that have come in and are not already entered and can autocomplete as you type.
• If a Reg number is your prerequisite then if it is not entered then the machine should not complete the transaction and issue a ticket as it is then not compliant with your 'apparent' requirements and is then inviting this very inconvenience to yourselves and the customer which is unreasonable.

        You seem to have then a ANPR not fit for purpose and you impose its failings on a good faith customer.

but it doesn't matter because they don't engage in anything you say after their appeal decision in any case. I am still emailing them asking for evidence of the requirement to enter reg.  but  Should I just appeal to POPLA? Is it worth it?

Thanks

I'm in almost exactly the same situation a year later and Warwick Hospital Car Park Operators LPS did the same.  I found the ticket that proved I had paid - although it was for MY car registration and not my Mum's but it proved that I had paid for a space that I had occupied.  And surely that is the point of it all.  Their system allowed me to pay, just as you say, for a car reg that never entered their site.  I was furious at the "discounted" offer of £20 for their admin and inconvenience.  Theirs??? My Mum is 88, was in great distress at the time and is now completely in bits over a PAID FOR ticket!!! This is a very condensed version but suffice to say I took it to their highly dubious "independent appeals" organisation who found in their favour.  When I read their reason for finding against me, I read that the car park operator had told them that my bank card had been used to pay for another vehicle later that day.  It said that I must have visited the hospital car park twice and paid for the second visit in a car with a registration that I have never seen before.  In short it was a lie.  I am beside myself at what is going on with what should be a simple procedure.  These criminals need to be called out and poor folks who clearly have tried to pay in all good faith need to have their fines reimbursed WITH damages for stress caused, time wastage and criminal practice.  

Car1980

"Failed to make valid Payment"

Is that the entirety of the reason? Britannia use DCB, so you can bet the particulars of claim on any court attempt will be simply that. They never alter what's on the original invoice.
So they'll never claim for a keying error, and it has discontinuation written all over it.

Coupon-mad

suzi_singer said:

Mugelbbub said:

Hi Guys, Sorry not responded earlier

Yes I still have the ticket I bought for cash and sent them a copy.

in regard to the 'keying error"  where they said ... "It is not feasible to calibrate the ANPR system to recognise whether the value entered is valid or not. "   

I suggested "well you could."

• The ANPR monitors reg numbers going in and out and if a reg is entered that has not come in then it is rejected.
• If the ANPR knows the reg's that have come in and are not already entered and can autocomplete as you type.
• If a Reg number is your prerequisite then if it is not entered then the machine should not complete the transaction and issue a ticket as it is then not compliant with your 'apparent' requirements and is then inviting this very inconvenience to yourselves and the customer which is unreasonable.

        You seem to have then a ANPR not fit for purpose and you impose its failings on a good faith customer.

but it doesn't matter because they don't engage in anything you say after their appeal decision in any case. I am still emailing them asking for evidence of the requirement to enter reg.  but  Should I just appeal to POPLA? Is it worth it?

Thanks

I'm in almost exactly the same situation a year later and Warwick Hospital Car Park Operators LPS did the same.  I found the ticket that proved I had paid - although it was for MY car registration and not my Mum's but it proved that I had paid for a space that I had occupied.  And surely that is the point of it all.  Their system allowed me to pay, just as you say, for a car reg that never entered their site.  I was furious at the "discounted" offer of £20 for their admin and inconvenience.  Theirs??? My Mum is 88, was in great distress at the time and is now completely in bits over a PAID FOR ticket!!! This is a very condensed version but suffice to say I took it to their highly dubious "independent appeals" organisation who found in their favour.  When I read their reason for finding against me, I read that the car park operator had told them that my bank card had been used to pay for another vehicle later that day.  It said that I must have visited the hospital car park twice and paid for the second visit in a car with a registration that I have never seen before.  In short it was a lie.  I am beside myself at what is going on with what should be a simple procedure.  These criminals need to be called out and poor folks who clearly have tried to pay in all good faith need to have their fines reimbursed WITH damages for stress caused, time wastage and criminal practice.  

We share your wrath but just ignore them. If the letters are arriving at mum's house, change her address to yours instead for the purposes of the ludicrous charge.

Come back & start a thread for bespoke help, if you get a LBC as shown in the second post of the NEWBIES Thread.