Double Electricity Standing Charge

PianoMan44

Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice on my energy bill. I'm with Octopus Energy and have an old meter that was converted from a british gas 4 season meter into a dual economy 7 / economy 10 meter. They are charging a standing charge for both tariffs even though I only have one electricity meter and no gas. I'm a tenant so it isn't easy for me to upgrade to a modern meter. Octopus energy aren't helpful and leave me unanswered for months. Some people have mentioned to me that new legislation should stop double standing charges on one meter but octopus appear to be ignoring this. What is the best solution?

Thanks

molerat

Some people have mentioned to me that new legislation should stop double standing charges on one meter but octopus appear to be ignoring this.

Unfortunately the legislation does not state that only one standing charge can apply, that is only applicable if you have elected to go on a single rate tariff with a complex metering system.

Have you asked your landlord to look at the electrics to see if a standard E7 meter can be installed ?

What type of heating do you have ?

bristolleedsfan

PianoMan44 said:

Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice on my energy bill. I'm with Octopus Energy and have an old meter that was converted from a british gas 4 season meter into a dual economy 7 / economy 10 meter. They are charging a standing charge for both tariffs even though I only have one electricity meter and no gas. I'm a tenant so it isn't easy for me to upgrade to a modern meter. Octopus energy aren't helpful and leave me unanswered for months. Some people have mentioned to me that new legislation should stop double standing charges on one meter but octopus appear to be ignoring this. What is the best solution?

Thanks

Octopus do not offer a specific Economy 10 tariff, they have offered a workaround to consumers with Economy 10 meters who have wanted to switch to them.

I am a bit confused as to why they are not able to offer you a workaround tariff. ( 1 Tariff/ 1 SC)

Scot_39

PianoMan44 said:

Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice on my energy bill. I'm with Octopus Energy and have an old meter that was converted from a british gas 4 season meter into a dual economy 7 / economy 10 meter. They are charging a standing charge for both tariffs even though I only have one electricity meter and no gas. I'm a tenant so it isn't easy for me to upgrade to a modern meter. Octopus energy aren't helpful and leave me unanswered for months. Some people have mentioned to me that new legislation should stop double standing charges on one meter but octopus appear to be ignoring this. What is the best solution?

Thanks

So to be clear - how many meters did you have before ?

Or how many meters do you have now ?

It cannot AFAIK be both what many would think of as standard economy 7 and standard economy 10 on the same meter.  

But there are some more complex three rate meters that have separate day night and heating rates - like legacy SSE and SP ? systems.  

And I know that Octopus have adapted to suit likes of E10 users in past (I guess on E7) despite not offering an actual E10 tariff per se.  So perhaps that is what they have done for you - and charging you accordingly.

Does your bill show 1 or 2 supply / MPAN numbers

Does your bill show 1 or 2 tariff names

Does your bill show 1 or 2 standing charges

How many meter readings do you give  / are shown on your bill(s) ?

Edit

How many xx.xp / kWh  rates are charged against those readings ?

I have seen many traditional systems and even a few rarer meter cabinet photos posted here that had a funny hybrid set-up of 2 meters. I remember one that had a standard old analogue meter for 24/7 live normal supply - but a digital E10 put in as a replacement exclusively for the time switched restricted supply - using only the 5th port / switched output - but it's rare. (The 5 port meter itself of course could have replaced both - but possibly with cost implications - but cannot remember now if that poster told us how he was being billed).

I thought normally you need two meters, registered to two seperate supply numbers (MPANs) - to pay 2 standing charges.  But to be honest - I am not sure how likes of SSE handled that for their three rate I believe single metering solutions.

I know I used to pay 2 SC when had a dual meter RTS (note that was dual meter - my RTS was a meter device - it gave me 2 additional electric readings to my other meter - charged at different rates ) - but haven't since been on E10 single metering - both digital and now Smart.

Being a tenant doesn't stop you having the meter changed - but you will need the landlords permission - and if you change it's mode of operation - may even in fact be forced to reinstate the old configuration according to CA website. In fact in past meter fitters used to insist on seeing proof of it or even speaking to the landlord (owner) before starting work on the meter. 

Changing the electric metering often has implications for wiring - some meters drive multiple circuits differently - on different outputs - and measure / record the usage to bill at different rates. 

I used to have three circuits - a standard modern E7 or E10 digital or smart meter can only handle 2.

bristolleedsfan

Scot_39 said:

PianoMan44 said:

Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice on my energy bill. I'm with Octopus Energy and have an old meter that was converted from a british gas 4 season meter into a dual economy 7 / economy 10 meter. They are charging a standing charge for both tariffs even though I only have one electricity meter and no gas. I'm a tenant so it isn't easy for me to upgrade to a modern meter. Octopus energy aren't helpful and leave me unanswered for months. Some people have mentioned to me that new legislation should stop double standing charges on one meter but octopus appear to be ignoring this. What is the best solution?

Thanks

And I know that Octopus have adapted to suit likes of E10 users in past  despite not offering an actual E10 tariff per se.  

In at least some instances Octopus E10 workaround has been charging SC x 2

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/supplier-compliance-requirements-customers-restricted-meters

"This requires all suppliers with more than 50,000 customers (“Relevant Suppliers”) to offer Relevant Tariffs1 to customers with Restricted Meter Infrastructure2 (RMI) upon request, without charging multiple standing charges if a customer has multiple meters"

Scot_39

But the OP's description of his metering does not sound like the footnote 1 re standard single rate metering.

So have added - how many rates - not just how many readings to my list above

PianoMan44

Thanks all,

I have 1 meter, 2 MPANs, 4 readings. 

MPAN 1 is an E10 on Flexible Octopus Variable with Off Peak (14.57p per kW/h) and Day (33.61p per kW/h) rates, although the day rate reading is always 00000.

MPAN 2 is an E7 on Flexible Octopus Variable with Night (14.57p per kW/h) and Day (33.61p per kW/h) rates

The landlord says "The flat is on an economy 12 meter, which essentially gives out 4 reads rather than the traditional one. This was when British Gas had 4 different meters depending on the season."

The heating is split between storage heaters and electric radiators. There is only electric supply to the property, no gas.

PianoMan44

Bill showing the two standing charges for the same time period.

Scot_39

I think that places you in the position as per @molerat post - where you are not on a single rate.

So therefore not entitled to single standing charge under the parricular Ofgem mandated  support linked by @bristolleedsfan above - due to the fact that no single rate meter could support that combination of tariffs.

You are essentially being charged E7 rates for an extended period of some description - one assumes 10 hours - but paying an additional SC to do so.

And that I suspect is applied to the night storage heaters and possibly restricted hot water tank immersion only.

But SSE used to have 3 rate tariffs - flexiheat or superdeal - some were single meter - billed with one MPAN and 1 standing charge. 

Scottish Power likely have too.

And just to add further confusion at SSE some were dual meter - with 2 MPANs one post refers to possibly even 3 - and on Ovo takeover some were asked to pay 1 SC some 2SC - 1  forum post referred to a concept of linked MPANs on national database for those meters under the common tariff for those only facing 1.

The SSE system was bespoke -the bespoke tariff reflected it - but Ovo clearly struggled to replicate it for some - alomthough it might have been resolved in end.

You could try gently and politely pointing out the fact that at least one other supplier did SSE - still Ovo from forum posts - offers legacy bespoke  1 meter 3 rates at one standing charge - even 2 meters 1 standing charge.  They might then agree to set one to zero for you - given it seems a very non standard agreement.

But if not I suspect again as @molerat suggestion the likely solution is to look to see if wiring suitable for fitting a modern 5 port e7 dual rate dual circuit single meter with alcs switching for hw and nsh.

Assuming the existing meter does provide just 2 circuit outputs - normal 24/7 and a restricted time live dedicated circuit for nsh and hw ?

Can we get a photo from your meter cabinet including the meter connections - serial number redacted - or just tell us how many meter tails and/or any auxiliary contactor wiring your meter currently has.

But there were other 3 rate systems that supported 3 circuits - my heatwise had seperate hw and nsh. Others THTC iirc in N Scotland  and at least one of the SP specials in S S sounds like it has has normal 24/7 live, a bespoke 24/7 live for auxiliary anytime heating and a restricted time supply circuit for storage heating.


Although you might lose 3 hours of off peak on restricted circuits - if one timing truly just 10 hours could even be split so charges nsh mid day.  Other legacy restricted meters gave extended off peak at weekends - one even had a Xmas special from 24dec to jan1st iirc.

You need to weigh up losses before thinking of changing meter / tariff to modern standard e7.

Someone must have thought the switch to Octopus was worth it - at the prevailing lower SC in past (my own single SC has gone up 134% - 32p per day - since Mar 22 - c90% of that in Apr 22 - due in part to SoLR levy). 

Many legacy special rates were not / are not all that competitive.  I pay  4p more on e10 off peak rate at my supplier than equiv e7 deal. But get it for 3 hours longer daily and mid afternoon / evening too.  That suits my lossy old NSH - I charge them to much lower temps - as can do so 3 times a day.

macman

I'm still struggling with a '4 seasons meter'?

countrycousin15

Two standing charges sounds awful. I have only one MPAN but not happy Octopus moved me from Economy 10 to Economy 7. Posted on https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6513161/economy-10-tariffs-anyone?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=Economy+10 about it