Smart meter BG clarification please

Kesi

Hello
All electric, high user,  Brit Gas on a frequently changed single fixed tariff.  We’ve  had no problems with BG but am now confused.  We decided to get a smart meter fitted. We had an economy 7 meter but on a single rate so both readings added together.  When the engineer came two weeks ago we said we wanted a single rate meter for ease of use.  Engineer really wanted to put in a two rate one but we insisted.  All seemed ok except monitor rate is wrong (we changed tariff just before meter installed) but now have had two messages from BG saying they need to upgrade the “radio Teleswitch meter” to a smart meter.  It’s a Toshiba SKu1 cellular meter.   Anyone any idea what’s happening?

Scot_39

There is a database that suppliers have access to - that records the meter / supply type for in theory every registered property across all suppliers and accessible by all.

Many will use it e.g. to set the initial tariff if request a move.

Most people live their life without ever knowing it exists. 

But it can create issues - often only discovered when trying to move suppliers.

It could be there is something out of date - in that meter database record for the property - that suggests it has - or rather had - an RTS meter. Not correctly updated in your case when replaced I guess with standard E7 meter - which you have now replaced.

[I hope wisely given meter fitters preference (but that's another issue)]

Some RTS installs actually were meters not just time switches - in that case supplies were recorded with 2 MPANs /  2 meters serial numbers - one for normal circuits - one for RTS switched / restricted circuits for HW and Night Storage Heaters traditionally.  I had one - 2 meters, 3 readings /  tariff rates (space for 4 on bills) and 2 standing charges.  And it isn't unheard of for only one of the 2 codes to be updated - leaving a ghost RTS meter entry - long since physically removed - when a 2 meter RTS is swapped out and replaced with 1 digital or smart etc.

And if stick with same supplier - errors can go undetected for years - until you try to switch suppliers.
Many e7 / multirate customers have had delays / issues as a result.

Or perhaps in your case - suppliers under pressure to identify and swap out RTS meters - before a deadline - recently pushed back to next year - rescan that database as part of their Ofgem mandated action plan.

Ideally BG should have updated the record - if you now genuinely only have a single meter.  And should be able to correct it now - given they have recently updated the meter.

They might have changed the real record to smart if old analogue or digital E7 prior etc - and not been aware of say a shadow record if that is in fact your issue - for an old RTS meter.

So it's worth pushing them to actually make sure the database is accurate - to the current metering - to avoid such comms in future.  IIRC They themselves don't maintain it - they have to request it to be modified - and seen posts saying can take 3 weeks plus once they request.

It has to be supplier driven - you cannot get direct access / request a change.

Oh - and the new meter wont actually be a Toshiba Sku1 cellular meter - thats just the comms module - maybe 2" tall or so - that sits on top - that sends smart readings to the network - and talks to the IHD (display device on a seperate home network).

The actual meter is the part below. 

So make sure you identify the actual model and Google/  learn how to read it.  You may never have to - but not all smart meters stay smart.  And it's good to be able to check bills against actual readings.

You might also want to check not only correct new readings - but also the new serial number appears correctly on next bill.

 

Kesi

Thank you so much for your comprehensive reply.  I will be ‘trying’ to contact BG for them to sort this but it doesn’t sound like we need another visit to change the meter again.  The meter is an EDMI ES 10B but hasn’t updated my online account yet.   Should I have gone along with the engineer’s recommendation re duel rate meter?

Phones4Chris

Kesi said:

Thank you so much for your comprehensive reply.  I will be ‘trying’ to contact BG for them to sort this but it doesn’t sound like we need another visit to change the meter again.  The meter is an EDMI ES 10B but hasn’t updated my online account yet.   Should I have gone along with the engineer’s recommendation re duel rate meter?

The EDMI ES 10B is capable of doing dual rates (ie.E7). What is can't do without the addition of a contactor is turn on large current loads such as Storage heaters and Immersions that you only want running in the cheap rate, that's because it's ALCS (aux load control switch) is only 2A for a contactor. You'd need the ES12B to do that without a contactor.

Whether you want an E7 tariff is another matter. It depends when you use most energy and what for. Daytime rates are a bit more expensive, whilst night rates are much cheaper. General rule of thumb is to use at least 60% on the night rate to be cost effective.

Scot_39

It depends whether he was just following the meter code he was sent to replace or whether he actually found an installation that was in past designed to operate best with a multirate plan / meter.

The meter itself can probably handle both sorts of tariffs just with even an OTA software update - it's really more of a question if you had anything on restricted time wiring (on E7 typically only live 7 hours per night) relying on the meter to activate the circuits.

Given you already had switched to single rate - chances are you werent using for instance - night storage heaters - or a lot of electric for hot water - at night rates.  

Many homes that might have had them initially - no longer do.

Scot_39

Phones4Chris said:

Whether you want an E7 tariff is another matter. It depends when you use most energy and what for. Daytime rates are a bit more expensive, whilst night rates are much cheaper. General rule of thumb is to use at least 60% on the night rate to be cost effective.

Try 35-40% these days with many suppliers - if talking against SR.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/economy-7/

Using some notional average E7 rate - shows E7 more expensive at 30% night,  cheaper at 40%.

by 60% - £179 cheaper - on the 3900kWh TDCV - there cost c£1175 looking at the tabled rates and differences - so over 15% cheaper.

But if compare against gas or say a high COP ASHP (say 3 or better in winter ideally) - it's a different comparison.

Phones4Chris

Whilst that's fair comment, the table should only be used as a possible guide. At the end of the day, decisions should NOT be based on Average this or Average that. One should do more precise calculations for expected usage and comparing the tariffs from more than one supplier for your own region, prices can vary considerably by region as we've seen. It's also likely that most who might be considering E7 may be using more electricity than an average 3900kWh p.a.

Scot_39

I suspect many higher users will be those reliant on electric heating.

And unless the small minority so far with ashp,  that is or at least was traditionally probably cheapest using a good e7 (or other multirate) deal and storage heating.

Ofgem admit the 3900 kWh figure is flawed - I suspect very - if you expect it to represent those using for heating - just read the last tdcv decision letter.

Kesi

Used 7700kwh last yr with 2k being the night rate (pump used 5400kwh) . Ashp set at 18c (otherwise too hot, especially overnight ) . Seems to be working as normal.  
So as long as we can in future use a two rate tariff I.e if we get an EV (overnight charging) then our single rate meter (4 terminals )should be ok? Or should we try to get the ES12B (5 Terminals?) ?  

Phones4Chris

There are 2A contacts for operating a Contactor. Your supplier may choose that option to be fitted or may opt to change the meter for a 5 terminal one. There are also tariffs where you are charged for the energy you use in each 1/2hr interval where the rates differ depending on the time of day (and demand could also be a factor), no change of meter is needed for that.
I'd think that could be a bridge you might want to cross at a later stage once you're likely to be getting an EV. You might also be using a different supplier depending on who is doing the tariffs that suit you best.

Whilst I'm no expert on EV charging points, I think these days when you have one installed they have to control the times you charge which could be tariff dependant (as well as the load your own supply is providing to the rest of your house).
Need someone who's an expert in this area to comment. If you don't get one here, maybe a new thread with EV Charging in the title when you are ready,