Do private parking companies have to prove that they sent a Notice to Keeper in the post?

Happyvibes55555

Hello

I am new to the forum but I have read through the newbies thread and other pages to familiarise myself with the content. Like many others, I have received correspondence from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd regarding a PCN relating to a Smart Parking Ltd car park. I did not get a windscreen ticket as the car park was ANPR controlled and I also did not receive a Notice to Keeper through the post.

I paid for the parking charge at the time of parking that was calculated by the parking machine and it appears I paid for 1hr. The first correspondence I received was from Debt Recovery Plus some 3 months after the alleged incident took place, thus resulting in me being outside of the 28 day period to appeal. I have tried to appeal via the Smart Parking Ltd portal twice to explain the situation but they have not answered any of my queries and have stated I am out of the 28 day appeal period, but to no fault of my own. They have not provided me with a POPLA verification code despite me asking twice. 

Does the private parking company not have to provide proof of postage or proof of delivery regarding the Notice to Keeper? If this is not required, the whole process is vulnerable to their manipulation ie PPC doesn't send a notice to keeper, therefore keeper cannot appeal within 28 days.

My second query is, can I still appeal via POPLA at this stage/timeframe from the incident? Smart Parking have not provided a 10 digit verification number on either of my previous attempts to appeal via their portal.

My third query is just to clarify some of the information on the other threads as I was a little unclear. If Smart Parking opt to take me to small claims court and I lose, what costs will I have to pay for? I assume the £100 for smart parking ltd plus court fees and solicitor fees, what sort of figure do these normally come to? Do you also have to pay the Debt Recovery Plus figure on top of this?

I would greatly appreciate your wisdom and clarification re this. Thank You

nopcns

If this ever got all the way to court and you were one of the very few that actually lost, the maximum costs you would pay are the fixed court fee of £35 and the fixed legal costs of £50. The £100 charge would have to be paid but the fake added DRA fees are not allowed.

However, you won't be paying a penny to the (not so) Smart Parking scammers. Stop trying to contact them. Have you admitted to being the driver? Hopefully not. SP normally don't issue PoFA compliant NtKs which means that they cannot hold you liable as the keeper. They have no idea who the driver is unless you robbed yourself in it by revealing yourself to be the driver.

First, you need to clarify whether your V5C logbook is up to date. That is very often why victims of these scammers don't receive the NtKs. You need to check. Often people update their drivers licence when they move but don't realise that they need to update their V5C separately. It can be easily update online.

DRP may have found your details from a credit reference search. Smart parking will say you're too late to get a POPLA code. However, the most recent version of the BPA Code of Practice has a clause that says if you didn't receive the original NtK they must reissue it and restart the clock. However, they will prevaricate and say "prove you didn't receive it", which you obviously can't but you can retort with "prove you actually sent it", which they can't either. In which case you make it a complaint, not an appeal, which you can then escalate to the BPA. It may or may not work. However, as it is likely that SP have not relied on PoFA, they are unlikely to escalate this to a claim. You just need to weather the DRA letters which are only useful as the lining for a cat litter tray.

Please read the Newbies/FAQ thread for all the detail on how to progress with this.

JoeN1988

To answer your question, no they do not have to prove, as such.

Another member @Nellymoser had been working hard to change this. 

Coupon-mad

And the new DLUHC Code requires it.  Anyone noticed that? 

JoeN1988

Do you have any idea when that might come into effect?

It'll go a long way to ruining the scam these people have been getting rich from. 

Coupon-mad

Not yet. Coming soon. There's good stuff in it even though I do say so myself!

  

JoeN1988

Almost like they've got a good person or two advising them!

Coupon-mad

JoeN1988 said:

Do you have any idea when that might come into effect?

It'll go a long way to ruining the scam these people have been getting rich from. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80702586/#Comment_80702586

JoeN1988

Outstanding, you have to admire the BPA's positive spin on the floor falling away from them.

Perhaps a incoming change of government will make things a bit easier for you.

Nellymoser

Coupon-mad said:

And the new DLUHC Code requires it.  Anyone noticed that? 

I went back re-read the new Code (withdrawn 2022 following legal action by PPCs). Seems the DLUHC did listen to Coupon-mad and motorists concerns re PPCs longstanding posting problem and they did actually address it in the Code.

8.1.2
A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales. Therefore parking operators must retain a record of the date of posting of a notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g. the date that any third party Mail Consolidator actually put it in the postal system.)

This gov public petition will show DLUHC this must be retained in the new Code. We must not allow them to be swayed by the private parking industry who continue to state PPCs are not obligated to provide proof of posting and it's the motorist's responsibility to prove they didn't receive letters PPCs claim to have sent.

Please continue to sign
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/652355
Require communications from Private Parking companies to be traceable/trackable

Castle

Nellymoser said:

Coupon-mad said:

And the new DLUHC Code requires it.  Anyone noticed that? 

I went back re-read the new Code (withdrawn 2022 following legal action by PPCs). Seems the DLUHC did listen to Coupon-mad and motorists concerns re PPCs longstanding posting problem and they did actually address it in the Code.

8.1.2
A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales. Therefore parking operators must retain a record of the date of posting of a notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g. the date that any third party Mail Consolidator actually put it in the postal system.)

This gov public petition will show DLUHC this must be retained in the new Code. We must not allow them to be swayed by the private parking industry who continue to state PPCs are not obligated to provide proof of posting and it's the motorist's responsibility to prove they didn't receive letters PPCs claim to have sent.

Please continue to sign
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/652355
Require communications from Private Parking companies to be traceable/trackable

Unfortunately that will only require the PPC to enter a "date of posting", there's still no requirement to keep proof that it was actually posted.