understanding storage heaters

baron777

Hi

I need some help understanding how storage heaters work, and how much they cost to run.

My brother has recently moved into a new 1 bed flat which has no Gas, and is only elec, and there are storage heaters, and I don’t know much about them.

After doing a bit of research I was able to find out that they work by heating up blocks that are inside the heaters, for 7 hours during the night, and then let out the heat in the day, and the speed of these can be controlled by the dials on the top from 1 to 6. And they are lniked to economy 7 so its cheaper to use during the night.

The make and model of the heaters are newlec HSXDA12X, series D, putting this into google I was able to find an installation guide for a similar Model HSXDA12N, and I think its power consumption if 1.7KW

But what I don’t really understand is how do the heaters know to come on at night, is there an internal timer? And does it only heat up during this time? Fors instance if it’s give out all its heat by say 5PM, how do you get more heat,

There is a switch on the wall, which I am guessing is the on/off so if you don’t need heat for the following day you keep it switched off.

Regarding how much it cost to run, my night unit rate with octopus is 12.93p per kw/h, so for 7 hours it will use approx. 11.9 KW/h per night totalling £1.54 (1.7x7x0.1293) is that right?

There are 3 other heaters in the flat, 1 same size and 2 smaller ones, so overall if they are all on and being used I am looking at approx. £6-7 per night, does that seem about right

My brother has just had a bill for the first 5 weeks, and its £325, which is really high, its £65 per week, for a 1 bed flat, I don’t pay that much and I live in a 3 bed semi and there are 4 of us in the house, the bill is split between day units 926 @ 29.12 per kw/h =£269.65 and 183 night @ 12.93 = £23.66, plus the standing chg (49.9p per day) and 5% vat.

What is also confusing me is if the storage heaters are using elec at night, why are his day readings so high, he has a tv, broadband router, oven, fridge freezer, washing machine, microwave, kettle, toaster, alarm clock, electric shower (used 3-4 times per wk) and there is a plug in oil filled radiator 1500w which I calculated costs about 45p per hour to run. I don’t understand how he is using nearly £8 per day in electricity.

Even though the appliances are and not very energy efficient, they still shouldn’t be that much difference should there.

Apologies for the essay, but this is this is not affordable, I was expecting about £100 per month elec usage, not £250, Any help would be appreciated,

Thanks

Colin

mmmmikey

Hi Colin - all good questions and things forum members can help with. Depending on your setup, they can work in different ways so rather than give you a lengthy "if this then that" type answer if it's possible to get a picture of the electrcity meters and bits and bobs around them we can give you more tailored answers. Also, a quick check that's worth doing first is to make sure you are actually on an Economy 7 tariff which should be clearly stated on the bill. It's not uncommon for people to have storage heaters but  be on a single rate tariff and finding themselves paying through the nose. Thanks, Mike

Robin9

baron777 said:

Hi

 

My brother has just had a bill for the first 5 weeks, and its £325, which is really high, its £65 per week, for a 1 bed flat,

Colin

Has your brother read his meters ?   Hopefully he did when he moved in otherwise he may be paying the previous tenants debt.

He may need to press a button or two - he will be looking for two readings - R1 /R2 or day/night.   There will be an arrow or similar against the reading.

Has he got an online account ? In which case he can give these readings directly 

Whilst reading the meter make a note of the serial number (it does happen that meters get mixed up particularly in blocks of flats)

Now look at the bill - do the readings compare; what is the letter against the reading ? - hopefully A or our read or C (if he provided the reading -  it does not want to be E (that means Estimate and the supplier is guessing)

Gerry1

https://youtu.be/UeB3Xf_qKvA

The supply to the Night Storage Heaters should be an Economy 7 circuit switched by the meter.  The electric shower is bad news because it will use expensive daytime electricity which is even more expensive on E7.

Gerry1

The hot tank will probably have two immersion heaters.  The lower one should be on a switched E7 circuit that is only live overnight.  It should be left permanently ON to give a full tank of hot water.  The one in the middle of the tank should be on a 24h circuit, possibly labelled Boost.  It's only intended for an emergency top up to give half a tank of very expensive hot water if you run out during the day or have been away.  It should be left permanently OFF.

If there's no E7 outlet with a neon indicator, look at the meter on the wall to see when everything switches to cheaper rate.  That's when to use the electric shower and tumble dryer (but only when attended).

Beware that some areas have a gap in the cheaper rate, e.g. 2230-0030 and 0230-0730 GMT.

Scot_39

Many older night storage heaters are reliant on the meter doing the switching of a restricted time (with e7 only on for 7 hours) series of power circuits to feed them and normally hot water immersion tank heater.

But are thermostatically regulated (input dial on old models controls brick temp cut off so electric charge ) so won't normally charge for 7 hours on lower settings.

In the past using mechanical timer switch in meter cabinet, these days perhaps using a digital or smart meter with Auxiliary Load Control switching built in (ALCS) or one controlling an external contactor / relay switch.

On E7 as you say that off peak circuit if it exists - 7 hours.


But Other e7 meters only do tariff rates - no ALCS  - and so the devices have own timers.  In this situation the two need to be matched by user.

Given the high peak rate use - this could be part of your brothers problem.

Sometimes the hot water tank has 2 elements - one Fed by the night e7 off peak, another available as a manual boost from dayvtime power - at peak rate.  Using that daytime element can be expensive.


Your brothers mix is way off for an E7 home with electric heat and hot water - suggesting he hasn't been using a lot of power to heat at all at the night rate - and using a far from normal amount of day.

183 kWh night   926 kWh day 

Is only 17% night.  Too low for e7 cost efficiency.

Over 5 weeks - taking that as literal - 35 days

5.2 kWh night per day
26.4 kWh peak per day.


A longish 10 min electric shower takes c1.5kWh, normally bit shorter.  It's not the main problem.

Something isn't right with that peak consumption.


My LR NSH is large - its 3.5kW input, 1.1kW output iirc -  the smaller ones in both halls 1.7kW input.

Are you sure the other heaters are all storage heaters.  I have seen flats with only 1, rest in halls and bedrooms etc simple panels

(My 2 panels in bedrooms are simple convection panels and bathroom / kitchen are wall mounted fans - all only use the 24/7 supply - at peak rates at peak times (all day on E7)).

It looks to me the problem is the very high use of day rate electric - at the peak price premium.

That could be being added to  because of second peak rate element on hot water tank left on, using daytime panel heaters and likes of 1.5kW plug in rather than nsh, faulty fridge freezer, less likely but not impossible - storage heaters using peak rate power.

I struggle to use 30kWh in a 2 bed mid terrace on the coldest days (like sub zero days)  - but run at lower temps than others.  My Mar average just 10kWh. But to be fair my use is  low - maybe half of my neighbours - annually.

How hot is he keeping rooms.

Some flats require little heating, others can be surprisingly lossy heat and draft insulation wise for their size.  Is he mid floor or top/ bottom - exposed corner location etc 

Did he get a copy of EPC certificate for a heat and hw energy required estimate ?

baron777

Robin9 said:

baron777 said:

Hi

 

My brother has just had a bill for the first 5 weeks, and its £325, which is really high, its £65 per week, for a 1 bed flat,

Colin

Has your brother read his meters ?   Hopefully he did when he moved in otherwise he may be paying the previous tenants debt.

He may need to press a button or two - he will be looking for two readings - R1 /R2 or day/night.   There will be an arrow or similar against the reading.

Has he got an online account ? In which case he can give these readings directly 

Whilst reading the meter make a note of the serial number (it does happen that meters get mixed up particularly in blocks of flats)

Now look at the bill - do the readings compare; what is the letter against the reading ? - hopefully A or our read or C (if he provided the reading -  it does not want to be E (that means Estimate and the supplier is guessing)

yes we took photos of the meter readings on the day he moved in and then when we looked the other day 

baron777

Scot_39 said:

Many older night storage heaters are reliant on the meter doing the switching of a restricted time (with e7 only on for 7 hours) series of power circuits to feed them and normally hot water immersion tank heater.

But are thermostatically regulated (input dial on old models controls brick temp cut off so electric charge ) so won't normally charge for 7 hours on lower settings.

In the past using mechanical timer switch in meter cabinet, these days perhaps using a digital or smart meter with Auxiliary Load Control switching built in (ALCS) or one controlling an external contactor / relay switch.

On E7 as you say that off peak circuit if it exists - 7 hours.


But Other e7 meters only do tariff rates - no ALCS  - and so the devices have own timers.  In this situation the two need to be matched by user.

Given the high peak rate use - this could be part of your brothers problem.

Sometimes the hot water tank has 2 elements - one Fed by the night e7 off peak, another available as a manual boost from dayvtime power - at peak rate.  Using that daytime element can be expensive.


Your brothers mix is way off for an E7 home with electric heat and hot water - suggesting he hasn't been using a lot of power to heat at all at the night rate - and using a far from normal amount of day.

183 kWh night   926 kWh day 

Is only 17% night.  Too low for e7 cost efficiency.

Over 5 weeks - taking that as literal - 35 days

5.2 kWh night per day
26.4 kWh peak per day.


A longish 10 min electric shower takes c1.5kWh, normally bit shorter.  It's not the main problem.

Something isn't right with that peak consumption.


My LR NSH is large - its 3.5kW input, 1.1kW output iirc -  the smaller ones in both halls 1.7kW input.

Are you sure the other heaters are all storage heaters.  I have seen flats with only 1, rest in halls and bedrooms etc simple panels

(My 2 panels in bedrooms are simple convection panels and bathroom / kitchen are wall mounted fans - all only use the 24/7 supply - at peak rates at peak times (all day on E7)).

It looks to me the problem is the very high use of day rate electric - at the peak price premium.

That could be being added to  because of second peak rate element on hot water tank left on, using daytime panel heaters and likes of 1.5kW plug in rather than nsh, faulty fridge freezer, less likely but not impossible - storage heaters using peak rate power.

I struggle to use 30kWh in a 2 bed mid terrace on the coldest days (like sub zero days)  - but run at lower temps than others.  My Mar average just 10kWh. But to be fair my use is  low - maybe half of my neighbours - annually.

How hot is he keeping rooms.

Some flats require little heating, others can be surprisingly lossy heat and draft insulation wise for their size.  Is he mid floor or top/ bottom - exposed corner location etc 

Did he get a copy of EPC certificate for a heat and hw energy required estimate ?

thanks scot

some good points made, the flat is ground floor, i am going round to the flat tonight and will have a good look at all the heaters, and the immersion for the hot water, and will speak to my brother about it all, not being very technical about these things, i will take lots of photos and post back on this forum if thats ok.
ive also emailed octopus to ask if he is on an E7 tarriff, 

thanks

Robin9

Please include photo's of the time switch so we can read the times.

Also when he moved in did he give meter reads to the existing supplier and then change suppliers ?

Details of the tariff will be on the account.

Perhaps R1 and R2 are the wrong way around ?   While you are there see which register is advancing

Do the switches next the heaters have a red/orange neon ? Is it on ?

rp1974

Unsure as to wether it matters or not,is that meter missing a tamperproof seal on the bottom section,picture 3 of 4?.
Don't know who should be informed if it is an issue,presume the supplier?,probably not a major concern but might be worthwhile support if it becomes one and it's been reported instead of having not been.

Qyburn

baron777 said:

Regarding how much it cost to run, my night unit rate with octopus is 12.93p per kw/h, so for 7 hours it will use approx. 11.9 KW/h per night totalling £1.54 (1.7x7x0.1293) is that right?

It shouldn't be as much as that because the heater will switch off when it gets hot enough which will depend on its settings, how much heat was already left in the core and to a lesser extent the room temperature.