Feeling of being overcharged - am I ?

coupleuk

I have an electric-only account with Octopus - it is £500 in credit (annual bill £1200 approx)

I wanted to reclaim some of it but had just changed my bank and DD, so I couldn't

Octopus, stated they would take the next DD from the new account but took it from the old one (I know I can claim under DD Guarantee).

Because I was going on holiday for 3 weeks and didn't want any more shocks, I deleted all my DDs relating to Octopus across all bank accounts.

Almost instantly Octopus emailed to state the DD had been cancelled. I emailed them back to explain why. They replied and reminded me to set up the DDs when I got back from holiday. That was the end of communication.

I have now got back from holiday and see I have a split bill from them - one which is the DD rates and the other I am guessing is the higher "pay on bill receipt" element for when the DD was cancelled.

I have written to them and await their response.

I have some questions and observation.....................

(1) Can they change my unit rate and standing charge without notifying me they are doing so and detailing the new higher rates? (they only advised me to re-do the DD in the email but nothing about rate changes).

(2) How can they charge me using higher "pay on receipt of bill" rates, when my account is in plenty of credit so they can just debit any bill from that; they aren't reliant on me sending payment.

(3) Because I am in so much credit, can I claim "prepayment rates" as effectively that's what I am doing by staying in so much credit. I note that prepayment rates are to be cheaper than DD soon.

Cheers

MattMattMattUK

coupleuk said:

I have an electric-only account with Octopus - it is £500 in credit (annual bill £1200 approx)

I wanted to reclaim some of it but had just changed my bank and DD, so I couldn't

Octopus, stated they would take the next DD from the new account but took it from the old one (I know I can claim under DD Guarantee).

Because I was going on holiday for 3 weeks and didn't want any more shocks, I deleted all my DDs relating to Octopus across all bank accounts.

Almost instantly Octopus emailed to state the DD had been cancelled. I emailed them back to explain why. They replied and reminded me to set up the DDs when I got back from holiday. That was the end of communication.

I have now got back from holiday and see I have a split bill from them - one which is the DD rates and the other I am guessing is the higher "pay on bill receipt" element for when the DD was cancelled.

I have written to them and await their response.

I have some questions and observation.....................

(1) Can they change my unit rate and standing charge without notifying me they are doing so and detailing the new higher rates? (they only advised me to re-do the DD in the email but nothing about rate changes).

Yes, the SVT is a published tariff with costs that vary by payment method, you cancelling your Direct Debit moved you onto the higher rate.

coupleuk said:

(2) How can they charge me using higher "pay on receipt of bill" rates, when my account is in plenty of credit so they can just debit any bill from that; they aren't reliant on me sending payment.

To have the discounted Direct Debit rate one is required to have an active Direct Debit, you do not as you cancelled yours.

coupleuk said:

(3) Because I am in so much credit, can I claim "prepayment rates" as effectively that's what I am doing by staying in so much credit. I note that prepayment rates are to be cheaper than DD soon.

No, you would need to specifically be on a prepayment tariff. Prepayment will be, due to them being subsidised by other customers.

GingerTim

1. Unfortunately, by cancelling your direct debit you have made yourself automatically liable for the payment upon receipt rates.

3. Prepayment rates are only available to those with a prepayment meter/smart meter set to prepayment mode.

Robin9

Did you use the Current Account Switching Service to change banks ?   If so then there's no need to cancel and reinstate DD's

born_again

You say you are in credit. But are you?
Are your meter readings on the bills correct to what your meter actually reads or are they all estimated?


I know I can claim under DD Guarantee

No you can't. As octopus advise you each month of the amount & date your DD is taken. So you have no grounds to dispute.

The Guarantee

• The Guarantee is offered by all banks and building societies that accept instructions to pay Direct Debits

• If there are any changes to the amount, date or frequency of your Direct Debit the organisation will notify you (normally 10 working days) in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. If you request the organisation to collect a payment, confirmation of the amount and date will be given to you at the time of the request

• If an error is made in the payment of your Direct Debit, by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are entitled to a full and immediate refund of the amount paid from your bank or building society

• • If you receive a refund you are not entitled to, you must pay it back when the organisation asks you to

• You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by simply contacting your bank or building society. Written confirmation may be required. Please also notify the organisation.

amanda1024

born_again said:

I know I can claim under DD Guarantee

No you can't. As octopus advise you each month of the amount & date your DD is taken. So you have no grounds to dispute.

Surely octopus saying they’ll take the DD payment from one bank, and actually taking it from another, is grounds to claim?

OP - you probably need to talk to octopus to sort this out (and set up a new DD)

Hoenir

amanda1024 said:

born_again said:

I know I can claim under DD Guarantee

No you can't. As octopus advise you each month of the amount & date your DD is taken. So you have no grounds to dispute.

Surely octopus saying they’ll take the DD payment from one bank, and actually taking it from another, is grounds to claim?

Direct debits are set-up well in advance of the due payment date. It is not possible to delete or amend a direct debit run once it's created. As consists of many thousands of individual accounts. 

If nothing had been touched at all then none of the problems or issues would have arisen. 

born_again

amanda1024 said:

born_again said:

I know I can claim under DD Guarantee

No you can't. As octopus advise you each month of the amount & date your DD is taken. So you have no grounds to dispute.

Surely octopus saying they’ll take the DD payment from one bank, and actually taking it from another, is grounds to claim?

OP - you probably need to talk to octopus to sort this out (and set up a new DD)

Grounds for claim are listed.

 Op would need to confirm the answer that @Robin9 asked.

As DD has to be set buy Octopus & it is not clear about old/new accounts.
If it was a switch, the account it was taken from would depend on date of the DD due & the date of the account switch. 

coupleuk

Robin9 said:

Did you use the Current Account Switching Service to change banks ?   If so then there's no need to cancel and reinstate DD's

No - I opened a second bank account. I went in to Octopus website to change my DD details and input a new date a couple of weeks away to allow time for the DD to be set up by them.

They acknowledged the next payment would be on that date and for the amount I had set up. I has purposely made the change 10 days before it was due so I can't see how they could claim the transaction was already in the system to go.

However, they then took the payment from the original bank account for the original amount on the original date.

Not wanting them to take an extra payment from the new account while I was on holiday, I cancelled the DDs on both bank accounts.

wild666

In the settings for altering the amount of the DD you can also change the date of the money coming out of the account. I did this changing the date from the 19th to the 1st of the month and as it was less than 10 days to the 19th no DD was taken on that date.

born_again

coupleuk said:

Robin9 said:

Did you use the Current Account Switching Service to change banks ?   If so then there's no need to cancel and reinstate DD's

No - I opened a second bank account. I went in to Octopus website to change my DD details and input a new date a couple of weeks away to allow time for the DD to be set up by them.

They acknowledged the next payment would be on that date and for the amount I had set up. I has purposely made the change 10 days before it was due so I can't see how they could claim the transaction was already in the system to go.

However, they then took the payment from the original bank account for the original amount on the original date.

Not wanting them to take an extra payment from the new account while I was on holiday, I cancelled the DDs on both bank accounts.

It is possible that some do still set DD's up 10 days prior to them being taken (old timescale) much shorter now. 

Best guess is that the old DD was not cancelled in time. But you could have at your end, given a new payment DD was set up.

But back to a previous point.
Are the readings on the bills the same as your meter or are they estimates?