British Airways booking - JAL flight cancellation - Who should pay compensation?

Jimeji

Hi, in dispute with BA and would appreciate any help on this matter.

We booked a flight with BA from LHR to Kumamoto Japan, via Tokyo over Christmas and New Year.

BA served LHR to Hanada, Tokyo, and JAL served Hanada to Kumamoto. On the return JAL served both legs.

Due to the aircraft collision at Hanada on 2nd January, our return flight from Kumamoto to Hanada was cancelled. Due to the chaos with flights at the time we were advised to travel to Tokyo on public transport, which we did. (Shinkhansen).

When we returned home I spoke to BA who said the compensation for the cancelled flight would be paid to me within 30 working days. Great, I thought - but suspicious it was too good to be true. About a month and half later still no payment so I called BA again. I was advised to raise a ticket with all the details which I did. 

Finally last week I had a response from BA saying that they are not entitled to pay compensation as it was a JAL flight and I should contact them.

Is this correct? If so I will try and claim through JAL but suspect that will be impossible. We did speak with them in Japan at the time and they had said any compensation would need to go through BA as it was booked paid through them.

What are my rights here? TIA

Caz3121

Compensation is the responsibility of the operating airline (JAL) irrespective who you purchase from
neither EU261 nor UK261 would apply as a non-EU/UK airline and departing from outside the EU/UK
I am not aware of any Japanese regulations that would require the airline to pay any compensation given the cancellation was out of their control
There is a possibility that you are due a refund on the Kumamoto to Hanada leg that was not used and given you originally paid BA for this the question would be best addressed to them
(difference being 'refunds' are dealt with who you paid. compensation' is dealt with by the operating airline)

bagand96

As above, BA are correct, operating air carrier is responsible for EC261 compensation. However you won't be due compensation under EC261 for the cancelled flight because:

1) JAL are not an EU/UK operator and your flight wasn't departing from the EU/UK

2) The accident at Haneda would almost certainly be deemed "extraordinary circumstances" meaning compensation wouldn't payable anyway.

You may be due a refund for any unflown leg (Unless JAL paid for your train tickets in lieu of the flight?) This might not be much, a domestic leg on a long haul itinerary may form a very small part of the overall fare. Any other additional expenses maybe your travel insurance. 

Jimeji

Caz3121 said:

Compensation is the responsibility of the operating airline (JAL) irrespective who you purchase from
neither EU261 nor UK261 would apply as a non-EU/UK airline and departing from outside the EU/UK
I am not aware of any Japanese regulations that would require the airline to pay any compensation given the cancellation was out of their control
There is a possibility that you are due a refund on the Kumamoto to Hanada leg that was not used and given you originally paid BA for this the question would be best addressed to them
(difference being 'refunds' are dealt with who you paid. compensation' is dealt with by the operating airline)

The question has been raised with BA and they have now deflected the question to JAL, so it sounds as though we have little hope! 

Jimeji

bagand96 said:

As above, BA are correct, operating air carrier is responsible for EC261 compensation. However you won't be due compensation under EC261 for the cancelled flight because:

1) JAL are not an EU/UK operator and your flight wasn't departing from the EU/UK

2) The accident at Haneda would almost certainly be deemed "extraordinary circumstances" meaning compensation wouldn't payable anyway.

You may be due a refund for any unflown leg (Unless JAL paid for your train tickets in lieu of the flight?) This might not be much, a domestic leg on a long haul itinerary may form a very small part of the overall fare. Any other additional expenses maybe your travel insurance. 

JAL did in fact refund the full fare for the Shinkhansenn at the airport (Cash in an envelope), but our understanding is this was more a gesture of good will, and a refund for the cancelled flight would still be due.

The train journey was an 8 hours and extremely challenging with 3 children, one of which was 7 months old as well as our severely disabled daughter. Plus 4 large suitcases.

In your opinion is it worth us fighting for the compensation/refund - and if so which airline to challenge?

If we don't have any case to fight then we'll let it rest.

bagand96

Jimeji said:

bagand96 said:

As above, BA are correct, operating air carrier is responsible for EC261 compensation. However you won't be due compensation under EC261 for the cancelled flight because:

1) JAL are not an EU/UK operator and your flight wasn't departing from the EU/UK

2) The accident at Haneda would almost certainly be deemed "extraordinary circumstances" meaning compensation wouldn't payable anyway.

You may be due a refund for any unflown leg (Unless JAL paid for your train tickets in lieu of the flight?) This might not be much, a domestic leg on a long haul itinerary may form a very small part of the overall fare. Any other additional expenses maybe your travel insurance. 

JAL did in fact refund the full fare for the Shinkhansenn at the airport (Cash in an envelope), but our understanding is this was more a gesture of good will, and a refund for the cancelled flight would still be due.

The train journey was an 8 hours and extremely challenging with 3 children, one of which was 7 months old as well as our severely disabled daughter. Plus 4 large suitcases.

In your opinion is it worth us fighting for the compensation/refund - and if so which airline to challenge?

If we don't have any case to fight then we'll let it rest.

Well you paid for transport (by air) from Kumamoto to London.  Due to circumstances beyond their control they couldn't do Kumamoto - Haneda, so they suggested and paid for alternative transport so you could continue to London.  Whilst I'm sure the train journey wasn't ideal and was stressful, sounds like there wasn't much that could be done in the circumstances.

Even though they're not applicable.... if we think of EC261 regulations for comparison you would have been entitled to rerouting at the earliest opportunity and "under comparable conditions".  Sounds like they met the earliest opportunity (did you make your original London flight?) and with flights not available train was next best.  Further under EC261 it would be rerouting or refund, not both.

You could ask JAL the question of the refund (or argue further with BA that it's there responsibility as it was their ticket), see what happens, if you get something I'd chalk it up to a win for you.  If it were me I wouldn't push any further than that as I'm not convinced there's a case for a refund - but that's me.

Hoenir

Jimeji said:

The train journey was an 8 hours and extremely challenging with 3 children, one of which was 7 months old as well as our severely disabled daughter. Plus 4 large suitcases.

You could have waited until the airport was reopened. As you were only advised of the alternative. When travelling there's always the risk of unexpected events occurring.  Causing disruption to what seem well made plans. 

Jimeji

bagand96 said:

Jimeji said:

bagand96 said:

As above, BA are correct, operating air carrier is responsible for EC261 compensation. However you won't be due compensation under EC261 for the cancelled flight because:

1) JAL are not an EU/UK operator and your flight wasn't departing from the EU/UK

2) The accident at Haneda would almost certainly be deemed "extraordinary circumstances" meaning compensation wouldn't payable anyway.

You may be due a refund for any unflown leg (Unless JAL paid for your train tickets in lieu of the flight?) This might not be much, a domestic leg on a long haul itinerary may form a very small part of the overall fare. Any other additional expenses maybe your travel insurance. 

JAL did in fact refund the full fare for the Shinkhansenn at the airport (Cash in an envelope), but our understanding is this was more a gesture of good will, and a refund for the cancelled flight would still be due.

The train journey was an 8 hours and extremely challenging with 3 children, one of which was 7 months old as well as our severely disabled daughter. Plus 4 large suitcases.

In your opinion is it worth us fighting for the compensation/refund - and if so which airline to challenge?

If we don't have any case to fight then we'll let it rest.

Well you paid for transport (by air) from Kumamoto to London.  Due to circumstances beyond their control they couldn't do Kumamoto - Haneda, so they suggested and paid for alternative transport so you could continue to London.  Whilst I'm sure the train journey wasn't ideal and was stressful, sounds like there wasn't much that could be done in the circumstances.

Even though they're not applicable.... if we think of EC261 regulations for comparison you would have been entitled to rerouting at the earliest opportunity and "under comparable conditions".  Sounds like they met the earliest opportunity (did you make your original London flight?) and with flights not available train was next best.  Further under EC261 it would be rerouting or refund, not both.

You could ask JAL the question of the refund (or argue further with BA that it's there responsibility as it was their ticket), see what happens, if you get something I'd chalk it up to a win for you.  If it were me I wouldn't push any further than that as I'm not convinced there's a case for a refund - but that's me.

OK, thanks for the advice. JAL is virtually impossible to reacg in the UK if I recall, and no doubt BA will prove to be a brick wall but I shall muster the energy and give it one last attempt!

Jimeji

Hoenir said:

Jimeji said:

The train journey was an 8 hours and extremely challenging with 3 children, one of which was 7 months old as well as our severely disabled daughter. Plus 4 large suitcases.

You could have waited until the airport was reopened. As you were only advised of the alternative. When travelling there's always the risk of unexpected events occurring.  Causing disruption to what seem well made plans. 

What? The airport was never closed. The first leg of Kumamoto to Hanada was cancelled and there were no other flights to Tokyo, so train was the only option.

We had to get to Hanada to catch our flight from Tokyo to London, as we had work/school to return home to. 

If we didn't need to return to the UK then yes, we could have pushed all flights back a week but that wasn't possible.