Different dividend values for same Vanguard Acc on Fidelity/Trustnet websites

bobfredbob

For GB00BD3RZ582 (Vanguard FTSE Global All Cap Index Acc GBP), I was looking at the dividend rates on Fidelity and Trustnet websites.

Fidelity gives 2023: 3.2205,  2022: 3.0266.

Trustnet gives: 2023: 3.202713,  2022: 3.031119.

So, for 2023, even with rounding, one says 3.22, the other 3.20.  The 2022 rates also differ (3.026 vs. 3.031).

I double and triple checked, and both websites are for the same ISIN.

I'm curious which is correct, or perhaps both somehow are?!  I can't find the actual rates on the Vanguard website since it only gives them for the Income version.

I know that the accumulation doesn't distribute dividends to me, but my CTC shows the effective dividend rate which I jot down each tax year.

I expected the values to be reported the same everywhere.
Thanks.

masonic

Could currency be the answer by any chance? If different exchange rates were used, then that could result in such a discrepancy. Being a global fund, the income received will be in various currencies and may be reinvested without conversion to GBP.

dunstonh

Source: FE Analytics.  (fed by APIs from the fund house)

bobfredbob

So the values from FE match Trustnet figures perfectly.

I double checked the Fidelity (uk) and Trustnet websites and they both say GBP, so I don't think it's currency.  The ex-div date is identical (01 Nov 2023).

masonic

bobfredbob said:
I double checked the Fidelity (uk) and Trustnet websites and they both say GBP, so I don't think it's currency.  The ex-div date is identical (01 Nov 2023).

I think you've missed my point. Most of the companies held in this index fund do not pay their dividends in GBP, and the money the fund receives may never actually be converted to GBP by the fund manager. So the GBP value is subjective.

FE Analytics powers Trustnet, so it is not surprising that the value direct from FE Analytics matches the FE Analytics value via Trustnet. The question is really what is Fidelity doing to arrive at its value. I would be wary of providing a different value than Fidelity given Fidelity may be reporting it to HMRC.

ColdIron

I think Trustnet uses FE fundinfo/FE Analytics

EthicsGradient

masonic said:

bobfredbob said:
I double checked the Fidelity (uk) and Trustnet websites and they both say GBP, so I don't think it's currency.  The ex-div date is identical (01 Nov 2023).

I think you've missed my point. Most of the companies held in this index fund do not pay their dividends in GBP, and the money the fund receives may never actually be converted to GBP by the fund manager. So the GBP value is subjective.

FE Analytics powers Trustnet, so it is not surprising that the value direct from FE Analytics matches the FE Analytics value via Trustnet. The question is really what is Fidelity doing to arrive at its value. I would be wary of providing a different value than Fidelity given Fidelity may be reporting it to HMRC.

I don't see how a GBP figure is "subjective" - neither Fidelity nor anyone else outside Vanguard will be computing this income by looking at the dividends of the hundreds of fund constituents. They're just using Vanguard figures; the question is who is reporting them correctly.

 If Fidelity sends Consolidate Tax Certificates, or an equivalent, to its customers that use the 3.2205 and 3.0266 figures, then, sure, those customers should use those figures. But we can't take what Fidelity put on their public website as a definitive figure. When customers of other platforms receive a CTC, they should use the figures in it; if anyone is trying to estimate their 2023-24 income tax liability before then, then it's a question of which route you feel is more reliable (yes, we can call this "subjective"). I've seen Fidelity's website be a little out before, so I'd trust FE Analytics/Trustnet a bit more.

If anyone held Vanguard FTSE Global All Cap Index Acc GBP when the 2022 dividend was paid, it would be interesting to know what value was used for their tax certificate, if anyone feels like digging the 2022-2023 one out and calculating it.

bobfredbob

Ah, you're right I did misunderstand you masonic.  So the fund manager converted the values at subjective rates from dollar/euro/pound, etc., as each of the sub-fund's dividends came in that make up the Vanguard fund.  So they use their own internal Vanguard FX rate.

But, on the Vanguard fund dividend date, wouldn't they report one GBP value for the Vanguard Acc fund to all downstream companies (Fidelity, Trustnet, FT, etc.) in some press-release/statement?

Since Accumulation funds don't distribute, perhaps Vanguard doesn't tell anyone anything about their dividends?  Maybe each company's website determines for itself what the Accumulation dividend was based on the Income fund, and then introduces their own rounding problem by using slightly different algorithms?

masonic

Reviewing the Annual Report from Vanguard, the figures it contains are as follows:

Note that these match the figures from FE Analytics and Trustnet.

masonic

EthicsGradient said:

masonic said:

bobfredbob said:
I double checked the Fidelity (uk) and Trustnet websites and they both say GBP, so I don't think it's currency.  The ex-div date is identical (01 Nov 2023).

I think you've missed my point. Most of the companies held in this index fund do not pay their dividends in GBP, and the money the fund receives may never actually be converted to GBP by the fund manager. So the GBP value is subjective.

FE Analytics powers Trustnet, so it is not surprising that the value direct from FE Analytics matches the FE Analytics value via Trustnet. The question is really what is Fidelity doing to arrive at its value. I would be wary of providing a different value than Fidelity given Fidelity may be reporting it to HMRC.

I don't see how a GBP figure is "subjective" - neither Fidelity nor anyone else outside Vanguard will be computing this income by looking at the dividends of the hundreds of fund constituents. They're just using Vanguard figures; the question is who is reporting them correctly.

 If Fidelity sends Consolidate Tax Certificates, or an equivalent, to its customers that use the 3.2205 and 3.0266 figures, then, sure, those customers should use those figures. But we can't take what Fidelity put on their public website as a definitive figure. When customers of other platforms receive a CTC, they should use the figures in it; if anyone is trying to estimate their 2023-24 income tax liability before then, then it's a question of which route you feel is more reliable (yes, we can call this "subjective"). I've seen Fidelity's website be a little out before, so I'd trust FE Analytics/Trustnet a bit more.

If anyone held Vanguard FTSE Global All Cap Index Acc GBP when the 2022 dividend was paid, it would be interesting to know what value was used for their tax certificate, if anyone feels like digging the 2022-2023 one out and calculating it.

I described the figure as subjective simply because there is no definitive correct answer. For me, the correct answer is what is on your CTC. There is some flexibility in accounting practices that are acceptable to HMRC, but it is likely that Fidelity would provide a valid figure, whether or not it agrees exactly with that published elsewhere. To deviate from the CTC figure would open you up to potentially having to defend an alternative figure. I don't know if Vanguard provides alternative information to platforms using a slightly different methodology than it uses for its own reporting - or, as you say, whether the Fidelity website figure will find its way into the CTC.

bobfredbob

I held that fund in InteractiveInvestor and in 2022 my CTC used 3.031190, and in 2021 it used 2.3502680, so they match the Vanguard annual report found by masonic, page 144.