Estate Agent Fee's (in particular, William H Brown)

E853

annetheman said:

I just came out of a contract with William H Brown's little brother, Brown and Merry - all part of Sequence, which is in turn part of the Connells Group.

It was an absolute shambles. I got x3 asking price offers and they absolutely bungled them all - agent didn't understand how to sell Shared Ownership above the RICS valuation - even though the very same agent had sold a neighbour's flat for almost exact same price in the exact same scenario less than a month prior. I had to escalate to regional manager and thank god I was only online with them for 1 month before the sole agency period expired.

One guy basically sabotaged my entire sale and wasted 3 months of my life - everyone else in the team was great, though. He joined the team in recent months and I feel truly sorry for the rest as he is their manager; absolutely shambolic.

So I would say avoid! I chose them because they were cheapest (though still not THAT cheap at 2%, which is high when you're talking about Shared Ownership prices of around £100,000 or less). If you do go for them, make sure you half the sole agency time from 20 weeks to 10 so you can get out ASAP when they mess up, like I did.

I've gone with another agency that is slightly higher at around 2.4% (around £2,500) but they're so far doing a decent job; I wrote them off initially because higher %age. Time will tell. I guess you get what you pay for sometimes!

Edit to add: I really think we should band together as customers and start publishing this data because the variation needs serious questioning. Glad you asked this, OP - if there is someone with the skills willing to start a database of this info, I would more than happily help to collate info!

I wish I'd read your post before signing with this company...as a first time seller I was a little naive and didn't really understand the terms...but I wasn't feeling great and they pushed me into signing by telling me I'd be in time for 2 open weekends.  The staff have blatantly lied, they never bother with my property until I phone them and miraculously I get a viewing literally within 30 minutes....who then oddly cancels on the day!!  I still have 10 weeks of little hope od selling before I can escape but am worried about their terms...liable for their fees up to 2 years after my 20 week contract ends?!

eddddy

E853 said:

...liable for their fees up to 2 years after my 20 week contract ends?!

You've probably misunderstood.

The "2 years clause" will be apply to the following situation...

• 1) the estate agent introduces a potential buyer (e.g. arranges a viewing),

• 2) then you terminate the estate agent's contract...

• 3) then you sell privately (without an estate agent) to that same person that the estate agent introduced within 2 years

• 4) then you have to pay the estate agent their fee

You don't have to pay the estate agent a fee if you sell to anyone who was introduced after that estate agent's contract terminated.

That's a standard clause that you should find in every estate agent's contract, if they are a member of The Property Ombudsman scheme.

knightstyle

Our sale is going through at the moment. We had tried to sell a year ago but the agent a local one was not good and we hardly had any interest.
This time we looked at sold properties and went with a new local agent who is very proactive, they charge more but it was worth it, third viewing made an offer and after negotiating we are now 5 weeks into the sale. We are also buying another house with the same agent.
So for an extra £1000 the house sold quickly and we are having regular updates from the agent on progress.

RHemmings

eddddy said:

E853 said:

...liable for their fees up to 2 years after my 20 week contract ends?!

You've probably misunderstood.

The "2 years clause" will be apply to the following situation...

• 1) the estate agent introduces a potential buyer (e.g. arranges a viewing),

• 2) then you terminate the estate agent's contract...

• 3) then you sell privately (without an estate agent) to that same person that the estate agent introduced within 2 years

• 4) then you have to pay the estate agent their fee

You don't have to pay the estate agent a fee if you sell to anyone who was introduced after that estate agent's contract terminated.

That's a standard clause that you should find in every estate agent's contract, if they are a member of The Property Ombudsman scheme.

Wouldn't it also apply where the OP sells to the introduced (by EA1) buyer even if the OP is now selling through EA2? That's how double fee situations can arise, and why the Property Ombudsman's code of practice tries to make that not happen. 

BarelySentientAI

RHemmings said:

eddddy said:

E853 said:

...liable for their fees up to 2 years after my 20 week contract ends?!

You've probably misunderstood.

The "2 years clause" will be apply to the following situation...

• 1) the estate agent introduces a potential buyer (e.g. arranges a viewing),

• 2) then you terminate the estate agent's contract...

• 3) then you sell privately (without an estate agent) to that same person that the estate agent introduced within 2 years

• 4) then you have to pay the estate agent their fee

You don't have to pay the estate agent a fee if you sell to anyone who was introduced after that estate agent's contract terminated.

That's a standard clause that you should find in every estate agent's contract, if they are a member of The Property Ombudsman scheme.

Wouldn't it also apply where the OP sells to the introduced (by EA1) buyer even if the OP is now selling through EA2? That's how double fee situations can arise, and why the Property Ombudsman's code of practice tries to make that not happen. 

I agree.

3) then you sell (either privately or through any other estate agent) within 2 years to that same person that EA1 introduced

perhaps?

ognum

I have just sold two properties, used a local agent not a multi agency.  I paid 0.8% plus VAT, it works out about 1%.  I would always use a local agent that knows the area, is working for themselves not a big organisation.

I am also not interested in the salesman the flash car and pointy shoes.

eddddy

RHemmings said:

eddddy said:

E853 said:

...liable for their fees up to 2 years after my 20 week contract ends?!

You've probably misunderstood.

The "2 years clause" will be apply to the following situation...

• 1) the estate agent introduces a potential buyer (e.g. arranges a viewing),

• 2) then you terminate the estate agent's contract...

• 3) then you sell privately (without an estate agent) to that same person that the estate agent introduced within 2 years

• 4) then you have to pay the estate agent their fee

You don't have to pay the estate agent a fee if you sell to anyone who was introduced after that estate agent's contract terminated.

That's a standard clause that you should find in every estate agent's contract, if they are a member of The Property Ombudsman scheme.

Wouldn't it also apply where the OP sells to the introduced (by EA1) buyer even if the OP is now selling through EA2? That's how double fee situations can arise, and why the Property Ombudsman's code of practice tries to make that not happen. 

If the sale is through a second EA, the Property Ombudsman's time limit is 6 months (after the contract is terminated) - as opposed to 2 years.

Here's the relevant section of the Ombudsman's code of practice:

Fee Entitlement and Client Liability

5t At the time of receiving instructions from a seller you must:

• point out and explain clearly in your written Terms of Business that you may be entitled to a commission fee if that seller terminates your instruction and a memorandum of sale is issued by another agent to a buyer that you have introduced (see definition of effective introduction (*) and supplementary TPO ‘Dual Fee’ guidance) within 6 months of the date your instruction ended and where a subsequent exchange of contracts takes place.

If no other estate agent is involved this time limit extends to 2 years.

Link:https://www.tpos.co.uk/images/codes-of-practice/TPOE27-8_Code_of_Practice_for_Residential_Estate_Agents_A4_FINAL.pdf

As you say, the other sections of the code of practice reduce the risk of double fees being charged.

BarelySentientAI

eddddy said:

RHemmings said:

eddddy said:

E853 said:

...liable for their fees up to 2 years after my 20 week contract ends?!

You've probably misunderstood.

The "2 years clause" will be apply to the following situation...

• 1) the estate agent introduces a potential buyer (e.g. arranges a viewing),

• 2) then you terminate the estate agent's contract...

• 3) then you sell privately (without an estate agent) to that same person that the estate agent introduced within 2 years

• 4) then you have to pay the estate agent their fee

You don't have to pay the estate agent a fee if you sell to anyone who was introduced after that estate agent's contract terminated.

That's a standard clause that you should find in every estate agent's contract, if they are a member of The Property Ombudsman scheme.

Wouldn't it also apply where the OP sells to the introduced (by EA1) buyer even if the OP is now selling through EA2? That's how double fee situations can arise, and why the Property Ombudsman's code of practice tries to make that not happen. 

If the sale is through a second EA, the Property Ombudsman's time limit is 6 months (after the contract is terminated) - as opposed to 2 years.

Here's the relevant section of the Ombudsman's code of practice:

Fee Entitlement and Client Liability

5t At the time of receiving instructions from a seller you must:

• point out and explain clearly in your written Terms of Business that you may be entitled to a commission fee if that seller terminates your instruction and a memorandum of sale is issued by another agent to a buyer that you have introduced (see definition of effective introduction (*) and supplementary TPO ‘Dual Fee’ guidance) within 6 months of the date your instruction ended and where a subsequent exchange of contracts takes place.

If no other estate agent is involved this time limit extends to 2 years.

Link:https://www.tpos.co.uk/images/codes-of-practice/TPOE27-8_Code_of_Practice_for_Residential_Estate_Agents_A4_FINAL.pdf

As you say, the other sections of the code of practice reduce the risk of double fees being charged.

Interesting - so they can chase for fees for private sales much longer than if it goes through another EA.  I never knew that, good knowledge to have.

RHemmings

eddddy said:

RHemmings said:

eddddy said:

E853 said:

...liable for their fees up to 2 years after my 20 week contract ends?!

You've probably misunderstood.

The "2 years clause" will be apply to the following situation...

• 1) the estate agent introduces a potential buyer (e.g. arranges a viewing),

• 2) then you terminate the estate agent's contract...

• 3) then you sell privately (without an estate agent) to that same person that the estate agent introduced within 2 years

• 4) then you have to pay the estate agent their fee

You don't have to pay the estate agent a fee if you sell to anyone who was introduced after that estate agent's contract terminated.

That's a standard clause that you should find in every estate agent's contract, if they are a member of The Property Ombudsman scheme.

Wouldn't it also apply where the OP sells to the introduced (by EA1) buyer even if the OP is now selling through EA2? That's how double fee situations can arise, and why the Property Ombudsman's code of practice tries to make that not happen. 

If the sale is through a second EA, the Property Ombudsman's time limit is 6 months (after the contract is terminated) - as opposed to 2 years.

Here's the relevant section of the Ombudsman's code of practice:

Fee Entitlement and Client Liability

5t At the time of receiving instructions from a seller you must:

• point out and explain clearly in your written Terms of Business that you may be entitled to a commission fee if that seller terminates your instruction and a memorandum of sale is issued by another agent to a buyer that you have introduced (see definition of effective introduction (*) and supplementary TPO ‘Dual Fee’ guidance) within 6 months of the date your instruction ended and where a subsequent exchange of contracts takes place.

If no other estate agent is involved this time limit extends to 2 years.

Link:https://www.tpos.co.uk/images/codes-of-practice/TPOE27-8_Code_of_Practice_for_Residential_Estate_Agents_A4_FINAL.pdf

As you say, the other sections of the code of practice reduce the risk of double fees being charged.

Yes. Provided the consumer follows the correct steps, there shouldn't be a double fee problem. At least: not one that a complaint to TPOS won't solve. And, TPOS doesn't seem to expect consumers to be too on the ball. But, if the case is subject to a court judgement before TPOS is involved, that of course is a problem. 

I'm not sure if the Property Redress Scheme offers the same protection against double fees. And in general I'm not convinced if the PRS's code and complaints process gives as much consumer protection as TPOS. Though, this is only my impression and could easily be wrong. 

I wonder what happens if there is a double fee issue and one EA belongs to TPOS and one to PRS.