Advice please - small confusion this time round

mrdubs

Firstly thank you so much for all the information on this site and everyones time. In the past 6 years I have used it twice to get off PCNs.

This time I am a bit more confused so any help welcome please

I am the Registered Keeper of a Vehicle that has received a PCN to Keeper for parking in a private Car Park from Green Parking with photos. 
1st question -
This thread says that now The Registered Keeper CAN be taken to court if they don't know the driver and if so then surely its a risk they will just take the Registered Keeper to court???

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69906180#Comment_69906180


2nd Question - How do I know if this PCN to Keeper is PoFa or none PoFa?

Thank you! 

Le_Kirk

That thread is from 2016 and you would be well advised to read the NEWBIE sticky which is always up-to-date.  Compare your initial PCN (Notice to Keeper, not the reminder) to the PoFA 2012: -
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted
OR compare it to the thread of pictures of NtKs recently posted (and kept up-to-date) by @Coupon-mad.

mrdubs

Ok, I have read everything and everything seems straight forward and same as I have done before apart from the fact ive read one of the threads and its says - "POFA allows them to go after the Keeper if they don't know who the driver was, so they now have someone to take to court if necessary."

So that means that even if I appeal with the template and not naming the driver then they can still just take the Keeper to court???

I have recieved a Parking Charge NTK - it mentions PoFA 2012 in their writing and the driver needs to pay in full. 

So this is my confusion - this thread - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69906180#Comment_69906180

Any help welcome to explain this, thanks!

KeithP

mrdubs said:

Ok, I have read everything and everything seems straight forward and same as I have done before apart from the fact ive read one of the threads and its says - "POFA allows them to go after the Keeper if they don't know who the driver was, so they now have someone to take to court if necessary."

So that means that even if I appeal with the template and not naming the driver then they can still just take the Keeper to court???

I have recieved a Parking Charge NTK - it mentions PoFA 2012 in their writing and the driver needs to pay in full. 

So this is my confusion - this thread - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69906180#Comment_69906180

Any help welcome to explain this, thanks!

But you are just repeating what you wrote earlier. 

Did you read @Le_Kirk's post?
Did you read that post you linked to?
Have you looked at PoFA?

Do you understand that they need to jump through a few hoops before they can transfer any driver's liability to a keeper?

mrdubs

KeithP said:

mrdubs said:

Ok, I have read everything and everything seems straight forward and same as I have done before apart from the fact ive read one of the threads and its says - "POFA allows them to go after the Keeper if they don't know who the driver was, so they now have someone to take to court if necessary."

So that means that even if I appeal with the template and not naming the driver then they can still just take the Keeper to court???

I have recieved a Parking Charge NTK - it mentions PoFA 2012 in their writing and the driver needs to pay in full. 

So this is my confusion - this thread - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69906180#Comment_69906180

Any help welcome to explain this, thanks!

But you are just repeating what you wrote earlier. 

Did you read @Le_Kirk's post?
Did you read that post you linked to?
Have you looked at PoFA?

Do you understand that they need to jump through a few hoops before they can transfer any driver's liability to a keeper?

Thank you Keith, I certainly do not want to waste my or anyones time - but for someone with nearly zero experience in this you must admit it is extremely extremely complicated to process all the information and fully understand it.

Ive had 2 experiences of getting off PNC using the newbie thread, so obviously I am struggling this time if I am reaching out. 

So..

1. Yes of course I read his post 
2. Again, of course I read it and I am asking, it clearly states that the keeper can be taken to court - and all that is followed up with and with your reply is "they need to jump through some hoops" - so for anyone reading that it gives a clear message that if they jump through those hoops then the keeper can be taken to court. It doesn't follow up with how hard those hoops are or how likely or if there are any examples of it happening.

3. Have I looked at PoFA? What does that even mean, I can only presume you are referring to have i done what Le_Kirk suggested which is - "Compare your initial PCN (Notice to Keeper, not the reminder) to the PoFA 2012: -
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted" - And Ill be honest with you, how you would go about that from that link I have zero idea, hence why I am asking. I am not trying to waste peoples time, I am seriously seriously weighing up if my time is worth the £40 fine.

I can vaguely conclude from your post that you are saying that in order to take the keeper to court it would be very difficult, but I am just asking, how likely?

Coupon-mad

Almost unheard of from Green Parking. Relax!

The Newbies thread already tells you about the PoFA, links & all.  It is over a decade old legislation.  Nothing new or concerning

mrdubs

Thank you all. So as an education as I can’t see a definitive answer on the Newbies thread - if my notice is a PoFA compliant Notice then how does that affect things? 

From what I can see they use all the right language and the notice arrived within time.

so question is - if it is a PoFA compliant notice then is there more chance they could take further action? 

Again, I am sorry if I am missing something here - it’s an education piece for me for sure! 

Umkomaas

If a NtK is fully PoFA compliant, the PPC can transfer liability to the keeper of the vehicle if the driver is not known. The keeper might be liable, but payment of the charge can only be forced on them by a judge. That's the bottom line. 

I don't think I've previously heard of Green Parking. If they were serial issuers of court claims, we would be well aware of them. Not every unpaid PPC gets to a court hearing, you seem to be assuming that your unpaid parking charge will end up there.  If it starts to move that way, come back on this thread and the forum will help you defend such a claim. The forum percentage success rate in such situations is in the high 90s. 

fisherjim

Why did Green Parking issue the PCN?

In all honesty they seem to be a little more honourable than most PPC's probably why they haven't cropped up before.

They actually go against the BPA COP and give a 15 minute grace period.

https://www.green-parking.co.uk/about-green-parking/

mrdubs

Umkomaas said:

If a NtK is fully PoFA compliant, the PPC can transfer liability to the keeper of the vehicle if the driver is not known. The keeper might be liable, but payment of the charge can only be forced on them by a judge. That's the bottom line. 

I don't think I've previously heard of Green Parking. If they were serial issuers of court claims, we would be well aware of them. Not every unpaid PPC gets to a court hearing, you seem to be assuming that your unpaid parking charge will end up there.  If it starts to move that way, come back on this thread and the forum will help you defend such a claim. The forum percentage success rate in such situations is in the high 90s. 

Thank you - I guess this is where they get so much success then, is the stress of £40 worth it! 
Something I need to think about today

mrdubs

fisherjim said:

Why did Green Parking issue the PCN?

In all honesty they seem to be a little more honourable than most PPC's probably why they haven't cropped up before.

They actually go against the BPA COP and give a 15 minute grace period.

https://www.green-parking.co.uk/about-green-parking/

Thank you - The driver parked in a private company car park at a weekend for circa 25 mins to feed baby - didnt even leave the car.

Now I need to make a decision - go through the stress of dealing with this and getting letter or just pay £40