Being a non-dependent & non-dependent charges?.

Mediamonarch

kimwp said:

It sounds to me like they have made an assumption that as your mother's housing benefit gets paid directly to them that she can't manage her finances. If you and she are confident she can, then she (with your help if necessary) can set up a direct debit/standing order from her account and just tell them that's what you are doing. 

I'm not making a statement about whether it should be paid or shouldn't be owed because she should get pip, just making the observation that it sounds like they've made some assumptions that you can just override.

I think you are right and she can with my help yes. I definitely do not feel comfortable with signing an "Authority to act" form just for the sake of paying a direct debit, I am moving out around September I can't have any legal ties like that In case anything happens to my mum and something comes on me even if I am not here. 

I hate how they did not mention this to my mum and ask her if she would be able to this with my support because that is what I am comfortable with doing. I don't see why they didn't mention it and at least let her say "no I am unable to do this" if she felt like she was unable to or "Yes I can manage that".  They are talking to me via email it feels like on the sly like I am a separate entity to my mum it's really weird and really uncomfortable for me.

Mediamonarch

Alice_Holt said:

Re  "We get your mums HB, less the non dep charge, that is for the non-dependant to pay, hence the shortfall we don’t receive it, neither does your mum..."   and

"I have attached a DD form and an Authority to Act, so you can correspond with us on your mother behalf. She will need to sign it"


  Normally HB is paid to the tenant, who then pays the landlord the total rent due.

 In some circumstances, where the tenant is considered to be vulnerable, or has difficulty managing their affairs HB can be paid directly to the landlord (to reduce the likelihood of arrears / eviction).

From the wording of their email - the latter seems to be the case.   

Given this, I think you need to work with the HO and help your mum set up a regular SO or DD for the non-dependant deduction, transfer her the money to cover this new payment to the LL, and help her check her statements to ensure it goes through.

What you both need to avoid is getting into arrears and facing eviction from your home.  The HO suggestion that you pay them directly is, I suppose, one method of avoiding this outcome, even though you have no direct legal liability to do this, and would not be responsible for any arrears. 

Perhaps vulnerable due to mental health but she has always been very good at keeping on top of things like rent and benefits. She also can't be THAT mentally vulnerable if they have recently refused her for PIP so maybe I should have made that point to them. 

I would much rather have them set up a direct debit with my mum and send her the payments on specific days I do not feel comfortable at all in signing any authority to act form especially as I will be moving out in September and I do not want anything coming back on me if things go bad. 

I hope that they can't refuse If I email them and say I want it set up with my mum and I pay her. I know for sure they are going to be arsey about it though and use any wording they like to try and guilt trip or trick me into signing that authority to act form and setting up a direct debit.

I feel weird like I am being forced and pressured into looking after my mum even though I know that she doesn't need it, she needs some tasks doing around the house which I do but she definitely doesn't need any support that takes away any of her independence like me signing up to responsibilities without her knowing the details of it (because she definitely didn't know that they asked me to set up a direct debit or sign an authority to act form), I think that WOULD affect her mental health if I took those responsibilities on rather than giving her money when she needed it or asked of it from me.

Spoonie_Turtle

Mediamonarch said:

Alice_Holt said:

Re  "We get your mums HB, less the non dep charge, that is for the non-dependant to pay, hence the shortfall we don’t receive it, neither does your mum..."   and

"I have attached a DD form and an Authority to Act, so you can correspond with us on your mother behalf. She will need to sign it"


  Normally HB is paid to the tenant, who then pays the landlord the total rent due.

 In some circumstances, where the tenant is considered to be vulnerable, or has difficulty managing their affairs HB can be paid directly to the landlord (to reduce the likelihood of arrears / eviction).

From the wording of their email - the latter seems to be the case.   

Given this, I think you need to work with the HO and help your mum set up a regular SO or DD for the non-dependant deduction, transfer her the money to cover this new payment to the LL, and help her check her statements to ensure it goes through.

What you both need to avoid is getting into arrears and facing eviction from your home.  The HO suggestion that you pay them directly is, I suppose, one method of avoiding this outcome, even though you have no direct legal liability to do this, and would not be responsible for any arrears. 

Perhaps vulnerable due to mental health but she has always been very good at keeping on top of things like rent and benefits. She also can't be THAT mentally vulnerable if they have recently refused her for PIP so maybe I should have made that point to them. 

I definitely wouldn't put any stock by that.  Unless she's become significantly and consistently better for at least a year before the reassessment then the PIP decision is likely to be wrong and needs to be challenged.

(Note: I'm not doubting at all that she is capable of managing finances if you both feel she is.  Just don't view the PIP decision as reliable evidence of anything.)

Mediamonarch

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Mediamonarch said:

Alice_Holt said:

Re  "We get your mums HB, less the non dep charge, that is for the non-dependant to pay, hence the shortfall we don’t receive it, neither does your mum..."   and

"I have attached a DD form and an Authority to Act, so you can correspond with us on your mother behalf. She will need to sign it"


  Normally HB is paid to the tenant, who then pays the landlord the total rent due.

 In some circumstances, where the tenant is considered to be vulnerable, or has difficulty managing their affairs HB can be paid directly to the landlord (to reduce the likelihood of arrears / eviction).

From the wording of their email - the latter seems to be the case.   

Given this, I think you need to work with the HO and help your mum set up a regular SO or DD for the non-dependant deduction, transfer her the money to cover this new payment to the LL, and help her check her statements to ensure it goes through.

What you both need to avoid is getting into arrears and facing eviction from your home.  The HO suggestion that you pay them directly is, I suppose, one method of avoiding this outcome, even though you have no direct legal liability to do this, and would not be responsible for any arrears. 

Perhaps vulnerable due to mental health but she has always been very good at keeping on top of things like rent and benefits. She also can't be THAT mentally vulnerable if they have recently refused her for PIP so maybe I should have made that point to them. 

I definitely wouldn't put any stock by that.  Unless she's become significantly and consistently better for at least a year before the reassessment then the PIP decision is likely to be wrong and needs to be challenged.

(Note: I'm not doubting at all that she is capable of managing finances if you both feel she is.  Just don't view the PIP decision as reliable evidence of anything.)

Sure, I am just trying to get in their heads as to why they think my mum is so vulnerable (vulnerable enough to be kept in the dark about everything that they want me to take responsibility for) all of this is being put on me it out of the blue and it doesn't make sense to me and they are keeping my mum in the dark about mostly everything they are telling me it all feels very weird and strange. It has just been a long day and I have been worrying about this all-day and I also get a little bit paranoid in my writing as you can probably see because I am thinking like "what are their motives", "why keep my mum in the dark about having me pay the non-dependent charge and sign a authority to act form" "why not ask my mum how she feels about any of this" and that type of thing. I am just worrying a lot sorry if my words come across a bit manic sometimes just feel a bit lost in this and on my own (there are no other family members to turn to). I need to sleep and re-organise some of my brain cells I think and try to relax and re-evaluate with some information I've gathered from this post which has been useful.

I just wish that they weren't being so obscure about everything and told me direct like "look, we consider your mum vulnerable and we think your mum is not going to be able to do this so here's what we suggest..." rather than "Hi, your the non-dependent, your now responsible for this (since your mum's PIP was rejected a week ago), we haven't told your mum about what we are asking you to do but you should sign this document to take on some of the responsibility (even though she has paid rent here and never missed since 2002) and also sign up to this direct debit, here's our generic website where you can maybe find more information etc" just hate the way they are coming across and it's so odd to me all of this.

sheramber

The housing officer/landlord emailed me in regard to being a non-dependent and they want me to sign up to a direct debit paying weekly.

How did the housing office get your email address?


They need your mother's authority to deal with you, rather than direct with her.
Somewhere, at the beginning, you have started  corresponding with them unofficially on your mother's behalf.

If you do not want to get your mother to sign the Authority to Act, not you, then you cannot continue to deal with them , on your mother's behalf.

The Authority to Act is saying that your mother agrees to you dealing with the housing office on her behalf. They need that authority to deal with you, instead of her.



If your mother does not sign the form, then all  further contact, letters, phone calls will have to be done your mother.

XXX
All that needs to be done is your mother sets up the direct debit to pay the required amount. the money will come out of her bank account.

You can pay her the amount each month.

When you move out your mother will need to advise the housing office that you have moved out so that no further non dependent charge is made.

nannytone_2

 No non dependant deduction after the OP moves into, but a reduction in HB or UC housing element because mum would have eligibility to determine bedrooms

Mediamonarch

sheramber said:

The housing officer/landlord emailed me in regard to being a non-dependent and they want me to sign up to a direct debit paying weekly.

How did the housing office get your email address?


They need your mother's authority to deal with you, rather than direct with her.
Somewhere, at the beginning, you have started  corresponding with them unofficially on your mother's behalf.

If you do not want to get your mother to sign the Authority to Act, not you, then you cannot continue to deal with them , on your mother's behalf.

The Authority to Act is saying that your mother agrees to you dealing with the housing office on her behalf. They need that authority to deal with you, instead of her.



If your mother does not sign the form, then all  further contact, letters, phone calls will have to be done your mother.

XXX
All that needs to be done is your mother sets up the direct debit to pay the required amount. the money will come out of her bank account.

You can pay her the amount each month.

When you move out your mother will need to advise the housing office that you have moved out so that no further non dependent charge is made.

Thanks for clarifying that it's my mum who is to sign it and not me I wrongly assumed it was me who was signing something and panicked a bit. I still wouldn't feel particularly comfortable if the authority to act had my name in it and I still feel uncomfortable with taking control of this entire situation when I barely had any time to process it.

In regard to me getting in contact with them first unofficially on my mum's behalf, this was not the case it was the rents support officer who asked me directly for contact details when they were here on their first visit. I am still not sure what prompted this first visit (probably the state of the garden but they made it sound like they were there to offer my mum support with her mental health apparently which then prompted them to send a support worker who comes here every Wednesday now) but this first visit is when the rent officer asked me directly for my contact details which I wasn't sure why at the time. At the time I don't think it was in regard to any non-dependent charges as my mum was still on PIP (until a week after their first visit) so it is my understanding that no non-dependent charges are made if my mum was on PIP. This is what also made me suspicious of this entire situation that they start coming around, all of a sudden my mum gets a review for her PIP over the phone and is suddenly rejected after several or more years and then they are all over me about this non-dependent charge it seems like instantly after that as they caught wind about the sudden PIP rejection. Things have all been happening around here very very quickly and suddenly out of nowhere and it is quite scary. 

I don't even mind setting up the direct debit with them if I don't have to be part of that authority to act document, If I need that signed in order for me to set up a direct debit then I am going to get them to set up the direct debit with my mum and then I pay her the funds for it like you say and I don't think they can refuse that even though it seems like they really, really would rather not do that for some reason and whilst she is doing that I am going to support her through contesting the PIP decision because I think when she is back on that the non-dependent charges are stopped. 

I understand that the non-dependent charges will stop if I am no longer a tenant but I also had a concern that if I am part of this authority to act form, if my name is in there, can anything come back on me even if I am no longer a tenant like I would hate to think something like that could follow me around if something bad happened with the tenancy with my mum like I need to do something because I'm in this authority to act agreement (that's if I agreed to it).

Today my mum received a letter notifying her of rent-arrears for the first time ever. She pays rent via direct debits. These rent arrears must be directly correlated with the non-dependent charges that haven't been set up yet at least I would hope that this was the case and once set up with either me or my mum there will be no further arrears I take it. 

Spoonie_Turtle

With the timing of the PIP review, it would have been coincidence.  Claims are taking literally months between sending forms back and having an assessment - and I mean months, 8+ not just 1 or 2.

Sorry I can't help at all with the rest of what's going on and I do understand it's stressful and it's natural to worry the way you are; I also very much understand the routes our minds can take questioning all parts of the stressful things that happen.  So I'm truly not intending to be nitpicky, only to try and reassure you a bit about the things that we can be certain of

You are correct that if (or hopefully when) your Mum's PIP is reinstated the charges will no longer apply, and I would assume she'd get a refund of the money charged for the shortfall because the PIP decision would backdate and apply to this period of time as well.

sheramber

I think it would be better , and easier to understand what is happening. if your mother sets up the direct debit to come out from her bank account. 

Then there will be no confusion as to who is paying the money. 

There is no need for your  mother to give you authority to act for her. It just means that any dealings with the housing office have to be through her.

 You can help her but she must sign any documents. 

It would be better to advise the housing office not to use your email address, but to write to your mother ( assuming she does not have her own email address.)

Again , that makes it clear who the responsible party is. 

Things seem to have got a bit confused  so keeping things separate will be clearer for everybody. 

Mediamonarch

sheramber said:

I think it would be better , and easier to understand what is happening. if your mother sets up the direct debit to come out from her bank account. 

Then there will be no confusion as to who is paying the money. 

There is no need for your  mother to give you authority to act for her. It just means that any dealings with the housing office have to be through her.

 You can help her but she must sign any documents. 

It would be better to advise the housing office not to use your email address, but to write to your mother ( assuming she does not have her own email address.)

Again , that makes it clear who the responsible party is. 

Things seem to have got a bit confused  so keeping things separate will be clearer for everybody. 

I have been mulling this over and I believe my mum is in rent arrears because of no longer recieving PIP so that probably means her rent direct debits aren't going through properly due to insufficient funds which I think might mean that if I set up giving her any money, parts, if not all of my money would go on the rents direct debit automatically rather than the non-dependent charges direct debit as it would just take from any available funds in my mums account. Maybe they knew this which is why they have come to me, I just wish they would have told me that if they knew that rather than me having to dig and come to my own conclusions about everything. So maybe it would be best for everything if I do this directly with them. I have looked into the authority to act and It can be withdrawn at any time which I feel a bit better about. But although I would like to have this direct debit set up with my mum and pay her the funds, it does seem like the other option is becoming the smarter one perhaps as much as I don't feel comfortable about it.