We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Given CI forecasting a rise in Oct are We looking at Trough Bottom in Short Term Pricing
Options
Ci are forecasting another drop in July, but are forecasting a smaller increase for Q4 - forecasting iirc small c1.6% gas, higher c6.8% electric come Oct vs July.
And as prices went up Oct23 to Jan this year by c5% fuel rate splits I cannot remember. Which may or may not be repeated this /next year.
So have we reached or soon to reach at least short term bottom ?
Something that should perhaps influence those looking to fix or wait to do so vs SVT now or immefiate futue ?
Possible Reasons
1) Inflation on top of Old Caps
Given even core let alone CPI inflation levels - it peaked c8% still over c5% etc - its arguable how much further prices will realistically drop.
Like if take the £1254 pre rises Covid and Ukraine - adding inflation - is only in order of 5% pa cf July CI forecasts.
If take say Apr 2019 at £1254 vs forecast £1463 for July it's under 4% even allowing for lower TDCV.
Could argue against using that 5 yr but a lower snapshot.
2) Policy and Network Costs - Now vs Historic
These have risen in absolute - and as wholesale recover from Ukraine crisis levels (for now) - also a larger percentage share of new caps.
So take Apr 24 vs Apr 19
In Apr 2019 £1254 cap policy costs were £151, network costs £270.
In Apr 24 £1690 cap - policy costs £188, network costs £368
So "declared as" policy and network have added £135.
But factor in 2 other arguably policy
- £28 debt offset = adjustment allowance
- £10 ppm levelisation - as DD payers now directly subsidise PPM operating costs
and to some extent
the 0.5% extra on ebit (£8) itself in large part debt policy cost related.
That £135 rises to c£181.
That's a pretty significant shift.
£1254 if drop by c4% for recent c5% TDCV drop = c£1200.
Cf Apr 24 actual cap - arguably thats c£180 of the c£490 difference over 5 years.
The comparible wholsale rise in the 2 Ofgem caps - a near similar £199 and the 2024 figure explicitly ncludes iirc £16 renewables CfD.
If CI forecast correct - July cap c£1463 - so that c£180 (it may reduce pro rata in part where parts charged as %) in c£260 difference - over 5 1/4 years.
Likely the wholsale diff will be even smaller - the bulk of cap fall in July.
It's not all the energy producers driving our costs (and associated big bad / profiteering etc accusations).
Ofgem / Govt (as govt arguably controls Ofgem as its an arms length - non minesterial body) social and renewables policy clearly taking a fair toll.
And as prices went up Oct23 to Jan this year by c5% fuel rate splits I cannot remember. Which may or may not be repeated this /next year.
So have we reached or soon to reach at least short term bottom ?
Something that should perhaps influence those looking to fix or wait to do so vs SVT now or immefiate futue ?
Possible Reasons
1) Inflation on top of Old Caps
Given even core let alone CPI inflation levels - it peaked c8% still over c5% etc - its arguable how much further prices will realistically drop.
Like if take the £1254 pre rises Covid and Ukraine - adding inflation - is only in order of 5% pa cf July CI forecasts.
If take say Apr 2019 at £1254 vs forecast £1463 for July it's under 4% even allowing for lower TDCV.
Could argue against using that 5 yr but a lower snapshot.
2) Policy and Network Costs - Now vs Historic
These have risen in absolute - and as wholesale recover from Ukraine crisis levels (for now) - also a larger percentage share of new caps.
So take Apr 24 vs Apr 19
In Apr 2019 £1254 cap policy costs were £151, network costs £270.
In Apr 24 £1690 cap - policy costs £188, network costs £368
So "declared as" policy and network have added £135.
But factor in 2 other arguably policy
- £28 debt offset = adjustment allowance
- £10 ppm levelisation - as DD payers now directly subsidise PPM operating costs
and to some extent
the 0.5% extra on ebit (£8) itself in large part debt policy cost related.
That £135 rises to c£181.
That's a pretty significant shift.
£1254 if drop by c4% for recent c5% TDCV drop = c£1200.
Cf Apr 24 actual cap - arguably thats c£180 of the c£490 difference over 5 years.
The comparible wholsale rise in the 2 Ofgem caps - a near similar £199 and the 2024 figure explicitly ncludes iirc £16 renewables CfD.
If CI forecast correct - July cap c£1463 - so that c£180 (it may reduce pro rata in part where parts charged as %) in c£260 difference - over 5 1/4 years.
Likely the wholsale diff will be even smaller - the bulk of cap fall in July.
It's not all the energy producers driving our costs (and associated big bad / profiteering etc accusations).
Ofgem / Govt (as govt arguably controls Ofgem as its an arms length - non minesterial body) social and renewables policy clearly taking a fair toll.
0
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply

Categories
- All Categories
- 351.1K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.2K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453.6K Spending & Discounts
- 244.1K Work, Benefits & Business
- 599.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177K Life & Family
- 257.5K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards