Licence and BBC Iplayer Advice

Sew_Late

Detail_Merchant said:

la531983 said:

Well a) the OP didnt make sure a declaration, ....

I'm not sure that's true. The OP said "I didn't realise they were using the TV", which makes me think maybe the visitor's used iPlayer on the OP's TV, which was signed in using the OP's iPlayer account, and that account might be in the OP's name, with the OP's address - hence the letter to the OP.

If that's the case then it's a harder case to argue that they didn't need a licence.
The OP's idea of "buy one and then cancel in two months' time" sounds reasonable. But maybe also log the TV out from their iPlayer account when they cancel, to avoid any repeat of the issue.

Would be useful to hear from the OP what the full situation was, re visitor's viewing on their own mobile devices, or on the OP's TV. And whether the letter was addressed to the OP by name, etc.
Also were the visitor's from elsewhere in the UK, and have their own TV license, or from overseas, and not TV license owners.

Detail_Merchant said:

la531983 said:

Well a) the OP didnt make sure a declaration, ....

I'm not sure that's true. The OP said "I didn't realise they were using the TV", which makes me think maybe the visitor's used iPlayer on the OP's TV, which was signed in using the OP's iPlayer account, and that account might be in the OP's name, with the OP's address - hence the letter to the OP.

If that's the case then it's a harder case to argue that they didn't need a licence.
The OP's idea of "buy one and then cancel in two months' time" sounds reasonable. But maybe also log the TV out from their iPlayer account when they cancel, to avoid any repeat of the issue.

Would be useful to hear from the OP what the full situation was, re visitor's viewing on their own mobile devices, or on the OP's TV. And whether the letter was addressed to the OP by name, etc.
Also were the visitor's from elsewhere in the UK, and have their own TV license, or from overseas, and not TV license owners.

Detail_Merchant said:

la531983 said:

Well a) the OP didnt make sure a declaration, ....

I'm not sure that's true. The OP said "I didn't realise they were using the TV", which makes me think maybe the visitor's used iPlayer on the OP's TV, which was signed in using the OP's iPlayer account, and that account might be in the OP's name, with the OP's address - hence the letter to the OP.

If that's the case then it's a harder case to argue that they didn't need a licence.
The OP's idea of "buy one and then cancel in two months' time" sounds reasonable. But maybe also log the TV out from their iPlayer account when they cancel, to avoid any repeat of the issue.

Would be useful to hear from the OP what the full situation was, re visitor's viewing on their own mobile devices, or on the OP's TV. And whether the letter was addressed to the OP by name, etc.
Also were the visitor's from elsewhere in the UK, and have their own TV license, or from overseas, and not TV license owners.

Detail_Merchant said:

la531983 said:

Well a) the OP didnt make sure a declaration, ....

I'm not sure that's true. The OP said "I didn't realise they were using the TV", which makes me think maybe the visitor's used iPlayer on the OP's TV, which was signed in using the OP's iPlayer account, and that account might be in the OP's name, with the OP's address - hence the letter to the OP.

If that's the case then it's a harder case to argue that they didn't need a licence.
The OP's idea of "buy one and then cancel in two months' time" sounds reasonable. But maybe also log the TV out from their iPlayer account when they cancel, to avoid any repeat of the issue.

Would be useful to hear from the OP what the full situation was, re visitor's viewing on their own mobile devices, or on the OP's TV. And whether the letter was addressed to the OP by name, etc.
Also were the visitor's from elsewhere in the UK, and have their own TV license, or from overseas, and not TV license owners.

grrrrrrrrrowl said:

Is this even real? I've used iplayer plenty of times without a license and haven't had so much as a warning!

grrrrrrrrrowl said:

Is this even real? I've used iplayer plenty of times without a license and haven't had so much as a warning!

Very real - I didn't like the number mentioned in the letter 

Sew_Late

Detail_Merchant said:

la531983 said:

Well a) the OP didnt make sure a declaration, ....

I'm not sure that's true. The OP said "I didn't realise they were using the TV", which makes me think maybe the visitor's used iPlayer on the OP's TV, which was signed in using the OP's iPlayer account, and that account might be in the OP's name, with the OP's address - hence the letter to the OP.

If that's the case then it's a harder case to argue that they didn't need a licence.
The OP's idea of "buy one and then cancel in two months' time" sounds reasonable. But maybe also log the TV out from their iPlayer account when they cancel, to avoid any repeat of the issue.

Would be useful to hear from the OP what the full situation was, re visitor's viewing on their own mobile devices, or on the OP's TV. And whether the letter was addressed to the OP by name, etc.
Also were the visitor's from elsewhere in the UK, and have their own TV license, or from overseas, and not TV license owners.

I was at work so they just turned on tv and assumed I had a licence so, yes, they accepted the declaration.  I'm now a bit paranoid about anyone accidently clicking on the iplayer app while looking for something to watch.  

Sew_Late

All solved now - they say happy with explanation and hopefully nothing more.  I do have a BBC account so will be signing out of that and will be remembering to tell anyone visiting that we don't have a licence - I don't need the aggro even if it's an empty threat.  

Sew_Late

ladruid said:

Interested into how TV Licensing know someone used iPlayer through your internet connection... the only ways I can think of that they could tie usage to your internet connection would be iPlayer was used on a device to a BBC account registered to you, or you admitted to them in some form of communication that you(or guests) have used iPlayer or your ISP has released your personal details based on IP address at the time/date of when the usage occured at the request of a private company (might be worth raising a SAR about this with your ISP if you believe it to be case as there could be a case for breach of personal data).

You are totally fine though if your guests watched the iPlayer while on a mobile device (tablet, phone, laptop) that was not plugged into the mains that they would be covered by their own licence as they would be classed as 'away from home'.

Here is TV Licensings stance on content away from your home:-
"Your home TV Licence will usually cover you for all TV channels, pay TV services like Sky, and watching live TV on streaming services like Amazon Prime Video. As well as everything on BBC iPlayer, on any device away from your home.

However, if you’re away from home and plug one of these devices into the mains and use it to watch TV channels on any TV service, watch live TV on streaming services, or to use BBC iPlayer*, you need to be covered by a separate TV Licence at that address (unless you’re in a vehicle or vessel like a train, car or boat)."

Reckon it was the account that did it so I'll be signing out of that but just in case will take your suggestion of checking the ISP.  I have totally forgotten about live streaming on Amazon though - I don't think I do but I don't need the aggro so will be extra careful about that too. 

ladruid

Maybe they decided to not take it further due to the fact it was not you who did the wrongdoing but a 3rd party without your consent. And with it being just a few times over a short period of time a magistrate might take a dim view that the case is wasting the courts time and could even see it as frivolous.

Glad it seems to have panned out for you in the end.

Cornucopia

There's a lot to unpack from this relatively short, simple account...

- The email from TVL wouldn't have definitively made an accusation of evasion.  It would have said something like "it seems like iPlayer has been used".  

- The TVL email/letter originates from matching the email address on a BBC account with one previously used for a Licence or on a No Licence Needed form.

- As such, it isn't robust evidence of evasion because the BBC account isn't necessarily being used at the same address previously without a Licence.

- Even if there was some way for them to tie the BBC account with the street address, it still wouldn't be direct evidence usable in Court - they need the name of the offender for that.  

- £1000 is the maximum fine - the typical fine is more like £180.  It depends on the circumstances and the disposable income of the offender.

- Although TV Licences are (mainly) for premises, offences are committed by people so there will always be a task for TV Licensing to tie offences at premises to people if they intend to bring charges.

It's good that you were able to sort it out with them, although in reality there wasn't anywhere for them to go in terms of bringing it to Court.   However, it's probably easier dealing with their call centre rather than having someone call at your home.