Next steps...unpaid care home bill

elsien

Spendless said:

How much did Mum have in assets (eg cash in bank accounts etc since there wasn't a property) at the point she went into care because if it was less than £14, 250  than surely Mum wasn't required to contribute anyway.?

If it was more than that amount and Mum should have paid £6K then isn't worse case scenario that the beneficiaries are asked to pay back £2K each? Though I think the onus is in the executor/administrator of the estate to check if any bills are owed before distribution. 

 

Even with savings of less than 14K people still need to contribute their state pension income and other benefits, aside from the personal allowance of £25 and any mobility component of PIP/DLA which you can keep. The care component would stop after 28 days anyway.
 The "free local authority care" is a bit of misnomer in that respect.  I suspect that is what has happened here - that family were not aware of this and after the lady's death have distributed that money that had built up in the bank account which should have been due to the local authority.  

Savvy_Sue

Plus, you seem to suggest that you had a letter saying care fees were due, but still went ahead and distributed estate without paying that bill?

Spendless

elsien said:

Spendless said:

How much did Mum have in assets (eg cash in bank accounts etc since there wasn't a property) at the point she went into care because if it was less than £14, 250  than surely Mum wasn't required to contribute anyway.?

If it was more than that amount and Mum should have paid £6K then isn't worse case scenario that the beneficiaries are asked to pay back £2K each? Though I think the onus is in the executor/administrator of the estate to check if any bills are owed before distribution. 

 

Even with savings of less than 14K people still need to contribute their state pension income and other benefits, aside from the personal allowance of £25 and any mobility component of PIP/DLA which you can keep. The care component would stop after 28 days anyway.
 The "free local authority care" is a bit of misnomer in that respect.  I suspect that is what has happened here - that family were not aware of this and after the lady's death have distributed that money that had built up in the bank account which should have been due to the local authority.  

Apologies I've misunderstood, what's being said as I'm aware you can only keep £25 in that scenario (FIL recently went into care and as in that position)

 In that case how can the money build up? I thought it was automatic taking the amount out. Oh do you mean if the £25 a week 'pocket money' builds up and isn't spent?  

Eg - Just in case I'm confusing myself this is an example of what I *thought* happened

Mr X goes into a care home, doesn't own their own property and only  assets are £14K in a bank account. Mr X receives 2 pensions, 1 private, 1 state. 
Mr X is allowed to keep the £14K in the bank but the state and private pensions are used to pay for his care and he is left with £25 a week to live on.

That's what I mean,  at the point the OP Mum went into care how much did they have in assets, was any income taken from Mum to pay for care? Where did the undisclosed sum shared between the 3 beneficiaries come from? 

Tryinghardtosave

Yes, she had less than 14k at the time one going in to care. We were told that her funding was taken care of, and because of not being informed at all that there was any bill due we of course were not aware that it existed. We also used the tell all gov service to inform all offices that she had passed and still did not get informed about the bill so her estate was split as it stood at the time. 

elsien

Spendless said:

elsien said:

Spendless said:

How much did Mum have in assets (eg cash in bank accounts etc since there wasn't a property) at the point she went into care because if it was less than £14, 250  than surely Mum wasn't required to contribute anyway.?

If it was more than that amount and Mum should have paid £6K then isn't worse case scenario that the beneficiaries are asked to pay back £2K each? Though I think the onus is in the executor/administrator of the estate to check if any bills are owed before distribution. 

 

Even with savings of less than 14K people still need to contribute their state pension income and other benefits, aside from the personal allowance of £25 and any mobility component of PIP/DLA which you can keep. The care component would stop after 28 days anyway.
 The "free local authority care" is a bit of misnomer in that respect.  I suspect that is what has happened here - that family were not aware of this and after the lady's death have distributed that money that had built up in the bank account which should have been due to the local authority.  

Apologies I've misunderstood, what's being said as I'm aware you can only keep £25 in that scenario (FIL recently went into care and as in that position)

 In that case how can the money build up? I thought it was automatic taking the amount out. Oh do you mean if the £25 a week 'pocket money' builds up and isn't spent?  

Eg - Just in case I'm confusing myself this is an example of what I *thought* happened

Mr X goes into a care home, doesn't own their own property and only  assets are £14K in a bank account. Mr X receives 2 pensions, 1 private, 1 state. 
Mr X is allowed to keep the £14K in the bank but the state and private pensions are used to pay for his care and he is left with £25 a week to live on.

That's what I mean,  at the point the OP Mum went into care how much did they have in assets, was any income taken from Mum to pay for care? Where did the undisclosed sum shared between the 3 beneficiaries come from? 

They weren’t aware that Mum‘s pension should have been going towards care home fees. So it was going into her bank account and stayed there until she passed.
The local authority can’t just automatically help themselves to money from someone’s account And the DWP will continue paying it to the named person or the appointee if there is one.
Someone has to arrange the payment and because the family weren’t aware, that didn’t happen.
Hence a complaint really being the only option.
And maybe getting a local counsellor on board? 

OP wouldn’t wouldn’t have to pay it within 14 days, so that’s just something they put on the letter. They would have to go to court if the OP’s complaint was not successful, win the judgement and I would expect the OP would be in a good position to set up a payment plan if necessary. Although you’d hope the other beneficiaries would step up to the mark, It’s being a genuine error. 
The local authority would have been aware of the death; the delay appears to have been in sending the bill out when the OP was not expecting it. Which doesn't surprise me as in my area there's a wait of a couple of months plus  to get the assessment completed in the first place, let alone start to to pay it. 

Spendless

Ahhh thanks understand what has happened now  but who sets up the financial arrangement to pay from income and keep £25 pocket money in the first place - the care home?  the family? It sounds to me like it got lost in the confusion of the early months of 2020.  Presumably there is a process that should have taken place that hasn't. If that's the case then I agree lodge a formal complaint about it. 

elsien

Spendless said:

Ahhh thanks understand what has happened now  but who sets up the financial arrangement to pay from income and keep £25 pocket money in the first place - the care home?  the family? It sounds to me like it got lost in the confusion of the early months of 2020.  Presumably there is a process that should have taken place that hasn't. If that's the case then I agree lodge a formal complaint about it. 

The person themselves or whichever family member has the legal authority to act on their behalf, once they have had notification from the local authority. Which in this case seems to have gone to the old address. 

Tryinghardtosave

Yes, so in summary, we were not aware that there was a bill, the estate was split and is no more. 
Is the consensus that we raise a complaint stating that we were not aware there were fees, after being told her care was originally funded in full?

thegreenone

I know Next of Kin is not officially recognised but is used by hospitals to contact relatives when needed.  When my Mum was discharged from hospital after a fall in May 2020, to a care home, I was phoned regularly with what would happen and when.  Adult Social Care, I think. The care home should have had ALL your contact details.

Mum came under the Covid funding scheme and, sadly, only spent three months in the home before she died.  Five days later I had a phone call saying that Mum needed to start paying her fees.  The lady was horrified that she had not been informed of Mum's death.

Someone should have phoned you or your siblings, not written a letter to a former address.

elsien

 Put it all in. 

That you were told she would be funded in full with no explanation that she may still need to make a contribution in the future.
That a quick phone call which was not properly explained was not sufficient for you to understand what was happening. 

Written information going to an old address that she was no longer living in following her admission to the care home when they should have  been aware that she wouldn’t no longer have had access to her post sent there once in the care home. 

The length of time that it’s taken for anyone at the local authority to follow up, meaning that the estate has now been distributed.

Any financial hardship that this will now cause.
Anything else that you think is relevant. 

Just checking though because you have siblings - is it possible any of them were contacted and didn’t tell you or do anything about it? Who was supporting Mum with her finances and ending the tenancy / sorting out her belongings once she was in the care home?