ULEZ Representation possibility

TooManyPoints

Unlike others, I find yours very respectful, fair and relevant!

You came here for advice with your particular problem.

I've read through the thread again and as far as I can see, nobody has been disrespectful, unfair, or made any irrelevant remarks.

The nub of your claim appears to be that your partner drove to and from Heathrow at short notice because of an emergency abroad and that either he, or you or both of you (it's not entirely clear as you mention all three) were unaware that a charge for entering the ULEZ zone was payable. The consensus seems to be that whilst writing explaining these circumstances may do no harm (unless you lose the early payment discount) it is unlikely to be successful.

If you wanted tea and sympathy (and possibly reassurance that all you had to do was write a letter and the charges would be cancelled) I'm sure there are plenty of places where those can be found. The advice you received in this thread, however, is based on reality.

Okell

MIHE18 said:

Very clever and funny reflections, Mildly_Miffed.

Does anyone have an informed opinion on how likely they would grant the discretionary compassionate waiver based on my representation above?...

That's a very disrespectful, unfair and irrelevant post.

@Mildly_Miffed's comment was both helpful and informative.  That it didn't tell you what you wanted to hear did not warrant your sarcastic and unpleasant response

Bigphil1474

To be fair to the OP, I wouldn't have a clue what the signs mean, I haven't driven in London since the 1990's, and haven't driven to Heathrow for over 10 years. I have a vague idea what ULEZ is but didn't know it covered the motorway route to Heathrow. Fortunately I do now, as I am taking relatives there in August this year. I will check there is no issue with my car driving into the ULEZ. I do think it is a bit harsh to expect everyone in the country to understand some local rules based on a vague road sign above a motorway though.

OP, I'd give it a go, but with little optimism of success.

Barkin

Top tip:  set up TFL Autopay. 

If my experience is anything to go by, even if your vehicle should be chargeable, there's a good chance you'll never get billed. 
And if you do, it'll get taken automatically, so you won't forget to pay it. 

Mildly_Miffed

Bigphil1474 said:

To be fair to the OP, I wouldn't have a clue what the signs mean, I haven't driven in London since the 1990's, and haven't driven to Heathrow for over 10 years. I have a vague idea what ULEZ is but didn't know it covered the motorway route to Heathrow. Fortunately I do now, as I am taking relatives there in August this year. I will check there is no issue with my car driving into the ULEZ. I do think it is a bit harsh to expect everyone in the country to understand some local rules based on a vague road sign above a motorway though.

You were, I presume, aware of the concept of trying to reduce emissions in urban centres by restricting access?

There are active low emission zones in fourteen cities around the country, from as far north as Aberdeen to as far south as Portsmouth, and they have been in the news repeatedly in the sixteen years since the first one started to operate.

If you saw that sign, would you not think "Hmm, I wonder if that's something I need to investigate", perhaps by asking a member of airport staff during the time you were waiting for your flight to board?

TooManyPoints

If I had read something explicit about paying a fee online, I would have understood it and paid it.

Further to my earlier post, I have found the results of an appeal which deals (among other things) with the claim that no fee should be payable as the driver was not aware that one was due. It is actually a review of an adjudicator's decision (so, an appeal of a refused appeal, if you like):

https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/keycases/Robert%20Morris%20v%20Transport%20for%20London%20%289190285441%29.docx#:~:text=The%20Authority%20asserts%20that%20the,are%20subject%20to%20special%20authorisation.&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

It’s a bit lengthy because it deals with other issues as well, but here’s the relevant passage:

“21. Whilst I have no doubt of the truthfulness of the Appellant's account of not being aware of the existence of the Ultra Low Emission Zone or of needing to purchase the appropriate daily charge to drive their vehicle within the Ultra Low Emission Zone these facts do not amount to a ground of appeal as set out in Regulation 13(3) of the Road User Charging (Enforcement and Adjudication) (London) Regulations 2001, as amended.”

In light of this, I believe that unless TfL rescinds the charges on compassionate grounds, any appeal is bound to fail.

user1977

Bigphil1474 said:

To be fair to the OP, I wouldn't have a clue what the signs mean, I haven't driven in London since the 1990's, and haven't driven to Heathrow for over 10 years. 

I have never driven in London and don't even live in England, but I'm aware that there's a ULEZ zone (given the nature of the London-centric UK media) so even if I didn't know the boundaries or rules I'd certainly have a think about it before (or immediately after) driving past some big signs about ULEZ....

Herzlos

Mr_Jay said:

The photo shown mentions nothing about a charge or a payment.

Whilst I agree a mention of a payment should be on the signs, the ULEZ has been in place in some form for years now so I can't imagine many people don't know that an action is required on entering the zones.

Unfortunately, I can't see an appeal being successful on the basis of not seeing the signage on an emergency trip to the airport. Many people will have made similar claims before you (for valid reasons or not).

As rubbish as it is, it's probably cheaper and less hassle to just pay the penalties if you can still get the reduced rate, it's probably small change compared to the rest of the trip and not worth the stress trying to fight.

MIHE18

TooManyPoints said:
If you wanted tea and sympathy (and possibly reassurance that all you had to do was write a letter and the charges would be cancelled) I'm sure there are plenty of places where those can be found. The advice you received in this thread, however, is based on reality.

I apologise for not acknowledging your respectful and thoughtful advice sooner.

Although I did no find tea, I found some very entertaining and funny replies as well as others truly respectful, interesting and useful ones. I hope you don't mind me staying in this forum 

MIHE18

Bigphil1474 said:

To be fair to the OP, I wouldn't have a clue what the signs mean, I haven't driven in London since the 1990's, and haven't driven to Heathrow for over 10 years. I have a vague idea what ULEZ is but didn't know it covered the motorway route to Heathrow. Fortunately I do now, as I am taking relatives there in August this year. I will check there is no issue with my car driving into the ULEZ. I do think it is a bit harsh to expect everyone in the country to understand some local rules based on a vague road sign above a motorway though.

OP, I'd give it a go, but with little optimism of success.

Thank you, Bigphil1474.

I'm glad you benefited from my post and will avoid an unfair ticket on your next trip to Heathrow!

Like you, I also find it unfair that the law expects all drivers to recognise all local ULEZ (or equivalent acronyms) signs and loca regulations (around 20 in the UK?) or face immediate prosecution charges.

Drivers on the road do not have much time to interpret unknown new signs as they have to process hundreds of signs, road, driving and traffic parameters every moment. This is precisely why it is compulsory to learn all the signals and pass the driving test.

In addition, the visibility of a signal on the road is usually not as perfect as those that can be shown in photos such as the one posted earlier, with perfect framing for the sign, in a sunny and blue sky, hardly any traffic, etc. and most importantly, it can be seen for as long as we want from the comfort of our living room. Nothing to do with reality, I was driving at night, it was raining and there was heavy and "aggressive" traffic and obviously it was only in my field of vision for a few seconds while I was dealing with everything else at the same time.

Leaving aside all the very clever drivers on this forum and the local ones who are familiar with the local regulations, I can think of many sensible drivers who would reasonably miss these signs.

As in other countries, it would be very fair if the drivers were simply informed and those charged were forgiven the first time they committed this local offence, along with an explanation of it and how to avoid it next time. The next time, of course, they would be charged for the offence. In practice, this would be just as effective in reducing traffic, but obviously the TFL wouldn't make as much money as they do...

Although it's probably legal to fine drivers who don't know the local rules (I've never tried to challenge this), it's also unfair in many circumstances, which is why I was initially going to appeal to their discretion, as I said in my post. I didn't need to be bombarded with arguments confirming that it was legal to fine me; I had accepted that long before I posted my case and never asked for it.

I just wanted to gauge how seriously TFL would take their right and responsibility to exercise their discretion. Unfortunately, nobody seems to have a formed opinion on this, but as some helpful users have speculated, it is very likely that TFL staff will not have the time nor the instructions to invest a reasonable amount of time in considering their discretion.

I'm very curious about this and it would be great for this forum if I could appeal and post my experience afterwards, but I've decided not to as I would most likely lose the prompt payment discount which is £190! (I got two fines in one go!)