Housing Benefit New Claim Question?

Purplefoxlass

I am hoping someone can help me work this out, I’m helping someone else.

It is regarding a new claim.

A couple currently claim housing benefit for a two-bedroom home, social housing. They have been together and have lived together for 20 years. They are not married. Currently paying the Under Occupancy Tax.

The current housing benefit claim is in the women’s name only, I am assuming the current tenancy is.

She claims Carers Allowance, he claims ESA and PIP.

They are moving to a one-bed flat also social housing, but the tenancy will be in one name only, the man’s as he is over 55, his partner is 51, so she is listed as a lodger on the property, they can’t have a joint tenancy due to her age.

The new home is a sheltered flat, with an onsite estate manager, there are supporting charges on the rent, but no physical care is offered. Property has careline.

As far as I am aware, she will need to close down her current housing benefit claim, and he will need to make a new claim for housing benefit.

I have been told he can claim housing benefit because it’s sheltered housing and includes supported housing costs, rather than universal credit.

Can anyone confirm if it will be a claim for housing benefit, rather than him needing to claim universal credit for his rent paid.

Also, I’m guessing she won’t be eligible for the housing benefit overlap payment, which means they will have to pay rent on both properties until they move, although they are hoping to move in as soon as they get the keys, but can’t give notice yet as they still don’t have a definite date.

Is there anything or anywhere they can get help from to cover the extra rent, as they are struggling financially to move.

I am happy to deal with the housing benefit side of things for them as previously worked in this area many years ago, but I don’t have a clue about Universal Credit?

Newcad

I'm afraid that as there is no actual physical care in the new tenancy that it will almost certainly have to be a claim for UC Housing Element and not Housing Benefit.

It's a fairly specilised area and because of that there are missunderstandings of it and quite a bit of well meant but incorrect advice given in the area of supported/sheltered housing and current benefits.

Generally all new claim for help with housing costs must be UC claims.

The correct term for accomodation for which a new claim for Housing Benefit has to be made instead of UC Housing Element is 'Specified Accomodation'.

Not all supported housing is 'Specified Accomodation', although some can be.

You can even have a situation where one flat is 'Specified Accomodation' whilst the identical flat next door is not, it all depends on just what level of care is being provided as a part of the tenancy.

As the named tenant he will have to make a claim for Universal Credit to get Housing Element for the new place, which will mean that if any part (or all) of his ESA is Income Related that will be migrated into UC.

As they are living together as a couple then she will also have to claim UC and their claims will then be joined into one joint claim.
(Being listed as a lodger shouldn't matter for UC, that's just a convinience for the tenancy agreement. TBH I'm not sure why it's been done like that, there seems no need for it and they could just be an unmarried couple with the tenancy in his name).

It is possible in certain circumstances for HB to be paid on the old property and UC-HE on the new one for an overlapping period, or a Discretionary Housing Payment from the council may be possible to help with the rent on the old property until that tenancy ends.

I strongly suggest that they should talk to a benefits advisor local to them, you can find local advisors by putting a postcode in here: https://advicelocal.uk/find-an-adviser
Alternatively Social Housing providers have welfare departments who should be able to advise/help, either the current social landlord or the new one (or both).

Purplefoxlass

Thank you so much for your helpful and informative reply, I escorted the friend to the town hall last week and they were not sure if it was a new HB claim or a new claim for UC, hence me asking here.

The tenancy can’t be joint as the property is 55+ only so as she’s only 51 she can’t be added as joint tenant, but she is aware if anything happens to her partner before she’s 55 she’s likely to lose the property, it’s quite a risk, but both of them have been desperate to get onto this sheltered scheme for sometime.

It is a well known UK social housing landlord that specialises in sheltered housing for 55+ but most estates just have estate managers and there is no real care offered to residents, actually the estate managers do nothing, but that’s my opinion! 

I will ask them to seek some help via a benefit advisor, I am aware the new landlord has their own benefit advisors via a telephone helpline, so I’ll direct her to them. I would have been fine dealing with a new HB claim, but I don’t really want to take on a claim with UC, and she’s definitely going to need some help and advice.

Thanks again for your helpful advice, it’s appreciated.

Purplefoxlass

Just another quick question, can they start the universal credit process now, or should they wait until they have signed the tenancy agreement and got the keys, the estate manager is saying they should claim (HB) now. They know they are taking the property, all checks done, just the old tenant has delayed moving out for three more weeks.

Newcad

The current tenant delaying moving out does not sound good, if they refuse to leave then things will become complicated. (It can currently take up to a year to evict someone, assuming that there are grounds for eviction).

I'm also a bit concerned and surprised that a Social Landlord would agree a new tenancy on a property that is not already vacant, that is not normal practice at all.

However:
You can claim UC at any time.

Doing that before they move would migrate their current Housing Benefit into UC along with any IR ESA, (do you know if the ESA is IR or contains any IR premiums?), and any other IR benefits that they claim.
PIP and Carers Allowance are not Income Related benefits so stay outside of UC.

Then they would report a Change of Circumstances on their journal when they move into the new place.
Not before then, UC only want to know about changes when they actually happen.

They should do a benefit calculation to check how much they would get with UC at their current Property.
That should help them decide whether to claim UC now or wait until they move.
ie. If they will get more on UC now than they do currently then claim UC ASAP, but if they would get less on UC now than they do currently then wait until they have to claim because of the move..
Of course there may not be that much difference between current benefits and UC.
(When I claimed UC it was just 6p a month more than my previous IR ESA and HB).

I prefer this benefits calculator: https://www.entitledto.co.uk/
There is also this one: https://benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/

A check to see if both calculators agree can be a good idea, as can double checking with a benefits advisor.

They could also do the same calculation again as if they were already in the new property to see what they can expect after the move.

EDIT: just for completeness about the renting two places thing  if they do claim UC, possibly the 3rd one might apply but probably not from what you have said..
https://www.gov.uk/housing-and-universal-credit/renting-from-local-authority-or-housing-association

If you pay rent on 2 homes

You can claim for rent on 2 homes at the same time if either of the following apply:

• the housing authority has housed your family in 2 properties because your family is large
• you have moved out because of fear of violence or abuse, are paying rent somewhere else, and intend to come back
• you’ve started renting a new home with a disabled family member but it has not been adapted to their needs yet

Yamor

I haven't had a chance to read through this thread properly, but just a quick comment:
Housing Benefit can be paid to one member of a couple even where the tenancy is only in the other member's name.
As such, as long as the new flat is in the same Local Authority area as the old house, and there is no gap between the two tenancies, HB can continue.

Purplefoxlass

Newcad said:

The current tenant delaying moving out does not sound good, if they refuse to leave then things will become complicated. (It can currently take up to a year to evict someone, assuming that there are grounds for eviction).

I'm also a bit concerned and surprised that a Social Landlord would agree a new tenancy on a property that is not already vacant, that is not normal practice at all.

The old tenant has accepted a property elsewhere, but since their new one is not quite ready they have now extended their moving out date by three more weeks. Same landlord, they are just moving to a different area.

You could say the two tenants know each other, the new tenant lives across the road from the property they are moving to, and has been waiting for sometime for a flat to come vacant since the male turned 55 last year, due to his disabilities he was given priority with this landlord last year and since “we” are all friends, it was obvious they would get offered the property etc.

I should know more about how ESA is made up later this week when I read the uprating letter, I suspect it’s IR and SG but not sure if other premiums. 

I’ll have a look at the Entitled To calculator.

Newcad

Yamor said:

I haven't had a chance to read through this thread properly, but just a quick comment:
Housing Benefit can be paid to one member of a couple even where the tenancy is only in the other member's name.
As such, as long as the new flat is in the same Local Authority area as the old house, and there is no gap between the two tenancies, HB can continue.

Yarmor raises an interesting point there, particularly as the new flat is 'across the road'.

It will depend on if the council are willing to keep paying HB to the same person as simply a change of circumstances particularly with them not being the named tenant at the new place, and as we all know councils can be awkward about things.

(I kept my HB as a change of circumstances when I moved from Private to Social rentals in the same LA, but I was the tenant in both properties. It was only later that I switched myself to UC by choice).

If the council are willing to do it as a C of C to the existing HB then there would be no need to claim UC.

So depending on the council that could well be another option for them to consider.

However they should still do the UC calculation to see if they might in fact be better off on UC.
And always bearing in mind that Managed Migration is going forward at pace, and although they have previously said that they won't be Managed Migrating IR ESA plus HB until at least 2008 governments are known to change their minds.
(And if it's CB ESA only that he has then without any IR ESA the HB will be Managed Migrated in the coming year).

Yamor

Newcad said:

Yamor said:

I haven't had a chance to read through this thread properly, but just a quick comment:
Housing Benefit can be paid to one member of a couple even where the tenancy is only in the other member's name.
As such, as long as the new flat is in the same Local Authority area as the old house, and there is no gap between the two tenancies, HB can continue.

Yarmor raises an interesting point there, particularly as the new flat is 'across the road'.

It will depend on if the council are willing to keep paying HB to the same person as simply a change of circumstances particularly with them not being the named tenant at the new place, and as we all know councils can be awkward about things.

(I kept my HB as a change of circumstances when I moved from Private to Social rentals in the same LA, but I was the tenant in both properties. It was only later that I switched myself to UC by choice).

If the council are willing to do it as a C of C to the existing HB then there would be no need to claim UC.

So depending on the council that could well be another option for them to consider.

However they should still do the UC calculation to see if they might in fact be better off on UC.
And always bearing in mind that Managed Migration is going forward at pace, and although they have previously said that they won't be Managed Migrating IR ESA plus HB until at least 2008 governments are known to change their minds.
(And if it's CB ESA only that he has then without any IR ESA the HB will be Managed Migrated in the coming year).

I think they have to. It really is simply a change of circumstances, and there is no basis to terminate the award. The legislation is clear that a person is treated as having a liability in a case where the person's partner is the one who is actually liable.

Purplefoxlass

I’ve now read the latest uprating HB letter and they claim Income Related ESA as a couple, so I am going down the route of a Change of Circumstances when I do the HB change of address, since she has equal liability for the rent at the new place.

We shall look once they are moved whether they will be better off on UC.

Thanks again for all your help and advice on this.