Reduce price?

Exodi

MeteredOut said:

Exodi said:

MeteredOut said:

Exodi said:

MeteredOut said:

A much better comparison is local wages as a ratio to the price of a starter house in that same area.

Albermarle said:

A much better comparison is local wages as a ratio to the price of a starter house in that same area.

Nationwide HPI News - Charts (nationwidehousepriceindex.co.uk)

 See the chart 'FTB house price earnings ratios by region'

OK to save the time and use Albermarle's link, not a single area has retained a similar house price v earnings ratios since 1995 (as per Bigphil1474's example that was originally referenced).

To be honest, I really don't get what we're debating here to be honest, my view that house prices have increased faster than earnings is hardly contentious (well perhaps on MSE it seems to be?), it's not a closely guarded secret that only few people know. It feels like I've said the sky is blue and we're now having a debate that it's not blue because someone glanced out their window during sunrise and saw it was red.

I own a house, but the constant playing down of the property crisis I find particularly grating. Which is why I took issue with Bigphil's comment which suggests that house prices v earnings haven't changed for 30 years. I'm tired of people (mostly boomers) holding the view that it's young peoples fault they can't afford houses (because takeaway coffee, or avocados, or whatever). It's probably fresh in my mind because yesterday I watched someone polling random people on the street about this, and you wouldn't believe some of the reasoning coming out of peoples mouths (commonly people who simultaneously held the view that they'd 'earned' the 10x increase in their own house price).

But, for example, pick 1983 (earliest) to Q4/23. Scotland goes from 2.5x to 3.25x, North goes from just under 3x to a bit more than 3x.

Or, pick 2008 as the starting point....

My point is, using the national average income versus the national average house price is pretty much meaningless unless you want a make a headline.

But the data Albermarle linked shows the same unless you want to cherry-pick different dates... I can't help if you've also decided that national averages don't count.

But if you think you prove your point by using the 2008 financial crisis as a reasonable starting point, then there's probably little sense going round in circles on this, so as GixerKate says, let's get back on topic.

Sorry for derailing all.

I think you think i'm saying something I'm not saying and its triggered you. I don't think many (if any) are denying it is now more expensive to buy houses. But, Its a fact that different regions have significantly different levels of income to house price ratios, and using the national average income and the national average house price hides that.

I think you're being deliberately disingenuous now... no-one is mistaking the conversation to be about house prices on their own, the conversation has very clearly been about increases to the income to house price ratio. There's no need to pretend there is confusion about this when there plainly has not been.

It's also frustrating that you originally decided to move the goalposts by declaring that nationwide averages should not be considered, yet simultaneously skilfully avoided acknowledging that the regional data posted in this thread shows increases to regional income to house price ratios, just with a larger increase in London. Your implication that the South East is significantly skewing the national average, suggesting that other regions have not seen increases to the income to house price ratio is simply not true.

But instead of providing data which supports your views, you then move the goalposts once more and resort to cherry-picking very specific time periods like the financial crisis, and doubling down on your idea that income to house price ratios have not changed - which just totally flies in the face of reality. I really don't know how anyone can genuinely believe this unless they have never been on the internet, read a newspaper, switched on a TV or spoken to another human being.

It's fine to be biased on this, the large divide in attitudes between generations is hardly a secret, but at least debate in good faith. Characterising me as triggered is obviously ad hominem, but I would agree that I am frustrated by attempts to minimise the struggles faced by young people trying to step foot on the property ladder today, particular by older home owners.

ReadySteadyPop

https://propertyindustryeye.com/renting-now-cheaper-than-owning-a-first-home-in-nearly-all-uk-regions-halifax/

RHemmings

ReadySteadyPop said:

https://propertyindustryeye.com/renting-now-cheaper-than-owning-a-first-home-in-nearly-all-uk-regions-halifax/

Both renting and mortgage costs are too high. I'm glad that I am out of both of those. And, I hope that my long term plan to give my son a leg up by going straight to no mortgage for a modest property to start with works out. 

ReadySteadyPop

RHemmings said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

https://propertyindustryeye.com/renting-now-cheaper-than-owning-a-first-home-in-nearly-all-uk-regions-halifax/

Both renting and mortgage costs are too high. I'm glad that I am out of both of those. And, I hope that my long term plan to give my son a leg up by going straight to no mortgage for a modest property to start with works out. 

Things are slowly moving in the right direction.

https://thenegotiator.co.uk/down-valuations-rearing-their-head-again-says-big-property-firm/

MobileSaver

ReadySteadyPop said:

RHemmings said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

https://propertyindustryeye.com/renting-now-cheaper-than-owning-a-first-home-in-nearly-all-uk-regions-halifax/

Both renting and mortgage costs are too high. I'm glad that I am out of both of those. And, I hope that my long term plan to give my son a leg up by going straight to no mortgage for a modest property to start with works out. 

Things are slowly moving in the right direction.
https://thenegotiator.co.uk/down-valuations-rearing-their-head-again-says-big-property-firm/

Funnily enough the same thing about down-valuations was said three years ago and house prices are up 12% since then so I guess you mean the right direction is a slow but steady increase of around 4% a year moving forward?

Crashy_Time said in February 2021:

No, I think lenders will be doing a lot of "down-valuation" going forward, to protect themselves basically.

jimbog

ReadySteadyPop said:

RHemmings said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

https://propertyindustryeye.com/renting-now-cheaper-than-owning-a-first-home-in-nearly-all-uk-regions-halifax/

Both renting and mortgage costs are too high. I'm glad that I am out of both of those. And, I hope that my long term plan to give my son a leg up by going straight to no mortgage for a modest property to start with works out. 

Things are slowly moving in the right direction.

https://thenegotiator.co.uk/down-valuations-rearing-their-head-again-says-big-property-firm/

So say the 'Open Property Group' - a 'we buy any property' company. So, no vested interest there

Slinky

I'm surprised we're not hearing from CrashyTime, Sarah1Mitty2, HotPantsCruiser etc saying the same thing. Oh whoops, they're banned, so we have just the latest reincarnation - ReadySteadyPop. 

ReadySteadyPop

Addison89 said:

We had our flat for sale for now about 2 months with a few viewings but no offer. It’s 2 bed, renovated with a private garden. Other similar properties in the area (London) priced for about the same. EA is asking if we would like to reduce price. I’m hesitant. Should we reduce or take it off the market and wait for interest rates to go down? We would like to move out of London and I noticed houses don’t really get sold there either and many properties prices have been reduced. Any advice would be appreciated!

Have you had any viewings recently?

BungalowBel

Exodi said:

BungalowBel said:

And , being a baby-boomer, I don't think the interest rates are high at all    I remember 15%, and for a short while, 17%.  Give me 5% any day!

Give it a rest, houses didn't cost 9x average earnings back then, it's not comparable in the slightest.

I'm sure younger people would happily exchange 5% interest rates for houses that can again be bought by a single earner with an average job.

The remark was intending to be humorous and also to give a bit of perspective on interest rates.  They are not high, compared to the last fifty years.  The price of houses is irrelevant in this context, although I agree that it would be nice to get back to historic price-to-earnings ratio.

Also I have recently sold a very nice modern flat, two bedrooms (one ensuite) on an estate in a decent area in the Midlands for £123.5k. T I think most people could afford that on a modest income. The person buying it is a single parent who works for the NHS - so not a high income.  Not all areas have London/SE prices.

ReadySteadyPop

BungalowBel said:

Exodi said:

BungalowBel said:

And , being a baby-boomer, I don't think the interest rates are high at all    I remember 15%, and for a short while, 17%.  Give me 5% any day!

Give it a rest, houses didn't cost 9x average earnings back then, it's not comparable in the slightest.

I'm sure younger people would happily exchange 5% interest rates for houses that can again be bought by a single earner with an average job.

The remark was intending to be humorous and also to give a bit of perspective on interest rates.  They are not high, compared to the last fifty years.  The price of houses is irrelevant in this context, although I agree that it would be nice to get back to historic price-to-earnings ratio.

Also I have recently sold a very nice modern flat, two bedrooms (one ensuite) on an estate in a decent area in the Midlands for £123.5k. T I think most people could afford that on a modest income. The person buying it is a single parent who works for the NHS - so not a high income.  Not all areas have London/SE prices.

The price or more realistically the amount you borrowed is very relevant if you are coming off a cheap fix, but I agree that these rates are super low compared to the past.