Sold my car privately - buyer threatening court

macman

Cranessss said:

TELLIT01 said:

MobileSaver said:

Cranessss said:

I recently sold my 2012 car with 83k miles ... it was listed in excellent condition

Playing devil's advocate, that was a really silly thing to state for a twelve year old car with 83,000 miles on the clock unless you actually said "in excellent condition for its age" but there's nothing you can do about that now.

I was going to say exactly the same thing.  Listing a 12 year old car as in excellent condition, no matter how well it have been looked after is risky.  The OP may be thinking 'for its age' and assuming anybody reading the advert will think the same way, but they clearly don't.

Yeah thank you, I appreciate that an in future I’ll say for its age etc. I didn’t feel it would be an issue either after the inspection and test drive and message once he had driven it home. It was all ‘tidy’, ‘beautiful’ and since the complaints it’s still lived up to expectations apart from these two minor faults that have since arisen.
thank you for your comments

No. Stick to the facts. Age, mileage, spec, service history.
You can ignore his threats. Even if you did know the car was a complete wreck, then you are under no obligation to reveal it. You just have to be honest in the ad, and in reply to any questions asked..

macman

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Worth a note that someone doesn't have to send a letter before before filing small claims, they should send one but AFAIK can continue with their claim without doing so (but might have less chance of being awarded costs). 

Shame you can't find the ad OP, where did you sell it? 

Correct, but judges tend to take the view that the claimant should always seek to settle out of court first where possible. Not submitting an LBA will never go in your favour.

Grumpy_chap

Cranessss said:

Hello All,

I recently sold my 2012 car with 83k miles for just under £9k. I’ll cut to the issue now but go into further detail below. He’s now stating that my ad was fraudulent as it was listed in excellent condition but since driving home major faults have appeared that he claims I knew about. He sent me a long list as per the below:

One of the front grills is very loose
a nasty mark on the front that’s surely linked to the grill

Boot rattling and not closing every time properly 

Boot not opening with either fob every time. 

Parcel shelf rattling

Drivers electric windows switch very faulty, ready to die any minute. Works intermittently.

Passenger doesn’t open every time with key fob

I Went back to him with responses for all, although admittedly had nothing to say about the parcel shelf but also explained that I hadn’t had an issue with any of those things during my ownership so there wasn’t anything I could really do. 

He’s been pushing for me to fund the window and door issue but at no point has he showed me a monetary quote for this despite telling me he’s taken it to a local garage. Asking me if I’m willing to pay? And are you happy for a local garage to send you a quote?

I communicated with the buyer before hand that there was an outstanding recall on the car that could be replaced by main dealer for free and also pointed out the broken clip on the sun visor and gave him the replacement clip and explained I hadn’t bothered to repair it since I bought it. 

He’s referring to these issues and in particular the passenger door and window as major faults. I was at work and told him I’d respond as soon as possible and he then messaged approx 48 hours later to say I’ve still not heard from you and it would be easy to delete your account, if you do I will be forced to contact you by letter or in person. I explained to him I found his tone to be threatening and was feeling harassed by him as he’d been suggesting I knowingly lied and have been fraudulent which I haven’t, I sold the car in good faith nor have I seen and value from him which also makes me wonder if it’s a scam despite the individual seeming ok when visiting my home to test drive and carry out the inspection and he was at my home nearly 2 hours.

he stopped the test drive himself as he said it drives beautifully and even since he’s said the car absolutely lives up to expectation from the outside and to drive. 

He’s also threatened small claims court which worries me as I don’t want a claim on my record despite being absolutely clear in my conscience that I never had any of the issues he’s described and I’ve said to him the way he’s described them does not sound like major faults. 

What’re your independent thoughts on this matter? I found it deeply concerning when he said about contacting me in person if I deleted my Facebook account as I have a young family. 

Many thanks

Jack 

So long as this is a genuine private sale, then simply do not engage with the buyer.

You said you sold 4 cars privately in 12 years.  If this car fits that pattern or a few years' ownership, that supports it as a private sale.

Even for a trade sale, the standard of a 12 yo car would be a 12 yo car, so some trim rattles etc is all to be expected.
Most of the items listed are items that could have reasonably been seen on a visual inspection by an average person.  The intermittent electrical issues (key fob boot, key fob passenger door, driver window switch) - well were they working when the car was sold?  Unfortunate if an intermittent issue developed after.  I'd even say the intermittent key fob is probably a battery issue but I would not engage to try to assist the buyer in case that can be seen as admission of knowledge of the issue.

Cranessss

Grumpy_chap said:

Cranessss said:

Hello All,

I recently sold my 2012 car with 83k miles for just under £9k. I’ll cut to the issue now but go into further detail below. He’s now stating that my ad was fraudulent as it was listed in excellent condition but since driving home major faults have appeared that he claims I knew about. He sent me a long list as per the below:

One of the front grills is very loose
a nasty mark on the front that’s surely linked to the grill

Boot rattling and not closing every time properly 

Boot not opening with either fob every time. 

Parcel shelf rattling

Drivers electric windows switch very faulty, ready to die any minute. Works intermittently.

Passenger doesn’t open every time with key fob

I Went back to him with responses for all, although admittedly had nothing to say about the parcel shelf but also explained that I hadn’t had an issue with any of those things during my ownership so there wasn’t anything I could really do. 

He’s been pushing for me to fund the window and door issue but at no point has he showed me a monetary quote for this despite telling me he’s taken it to a local garage. Asking me if I’m willing to pay? And are you happy for a local garage to send you a quote?

I communicated with the buyer before hand that there was an outstanding recall on the car that could be replaced by main dealer for free and also pointed out the broken clip on the sun visor and gave him the replacement clip and explained I hadn’t bothered to repair it since I bought it. 

He’s referring to these issues and in particular the passenger door and window as major faults. I was at work and told him I’d respond as soon as possible and he then messaged approx 48 hours later to say I’ve still not heard from you and it would be easy to delete your account, if you do I will be forced to contact you by letter or in person. I explained to him I found his tone to be threatening and was feeling harassed by him as he’d been suggesting I knowingly lied and have been fraudulent which I haven’t, I sold the car in good faith nor have I seen and value from him which also makes me wonder if it’s a scam despite the individual seeming ok when visiting my home to test drive and carry out the inspection and he was at my home nearly 2 hours.

he stopped the test drive himself as he said it drives beautifully and even since he’s said the car absolutely lives up to expectation from the outside and to drive. 

He’s also threatened small claims court which worries me as I don’t want a claim on my record despite being absolutely clear in my conscience that I never had any of the issues he’s described and I’ve said to him the way he’s described them does not sound like major faults. 

What’re your independent thoughts on this matter? I found it deeply concerning when he said about contacting me in person if I deleted my Facebook account as I have a young family. 

Many thanks

Jack 

So long as this is a genuine private sale, then simply do not engage with the buyer.

You said you sold 4 cars privately in 12 years.  If this car fits that pattern or a few years' ownership, that supports it as a private sale.

Even for a trade sale, the standard of a 12 yo car would be a 12 yo car, so some trim rattles etc is all to be expected.
Most of the items listed are items that could have reasonably been seen on a visual inspection by an average person.  The intermittent electrical issues (key fob boot, key fob passenger door, driver window switch) - well were they working when the car was sold?  Unfortunate if an intermittent issue developed after.  I'd even say the intermittent key fob is probably a battery issue but I would not engage to try to assist the buyer in case that can be seen as admission of knowledge of the issue.

Thank you for the comments. I’ve since blocked the account. I was using the car every day before I sold it, explained that I’d wind the window down most days en route to work and my wife would get in the passenger side for many journeys so I was completely perplexed when he came to me with these issues and they weren’t something I had ever had but I also wouldn’t deem them major faults either. I also offered some advice at the beggining when he said about the key fob issue but again, I think all my answers just weren’t liked as it was clearly stating I had never had those issues. 

macman

You need to focus on the fact that, even if the engine dropped out of he car five minutes after the buyer drove it away, it is not your problem. As long as you didn't say "I guarantee the engine will not drop out...'.
You just have to be truthful: you do not ned to divulge any faults, even if you know of them. 
Whether the trivial faults he is alleging exist or not is simply not your concern. This car was 2 years off average end of life (14 years) and it's condition cannot be expected to be perfect.

Cranessss

macman said:

You need to focus on the fact that, even if the engine dropped out tof he car five minutes after the buyer drove it away, it is not your problem. As long as you didn't say "I guarantee the engine will not drop out...'.
you just have to be truthful: you do not ned to divulge any faults, even if you know of them. 
Whether the trivial faults he is alleging exist or not is simply not your concern. This car was 2 years off average end of life (14 years) and its condition cannot be expected to be perfect.

Thank you for the comments, it’s useful to know. I was completely honest with what I knew and I’ve always said since this and whenever I sold a car in the past that if the engine did drop out at the end of the road or on the journey home I wouldn’t be able to live with that on my conscience and could understand that being a major fault too.