Irresponsible lending?

Nasqueron

prettyandfluffy said:

macman said:

Banks can only rely on the info available to them. If applicants lie to them or falsify information, then what are they supposed to do? Neither we nor you know exactly how he was able to obtain further credit from them. Only he can tell you that.
If you were to shop him to the bank and they find that he falsified his info, he will simply face the prospect of having his account closed and a CIFAS marker applied. Is that really what you want?

I think it's quite clear that the OP is trying to provide good support and not cause problems.

Yes but the issue is, if they go in guns blazing about irresponsible lending because the son can't stop spending, then they find out he lied about income on the application, it opens a can of worms of potential fraud issues

Superhoopza

Nasqueron said:

prettyandfluffy said:

macman said:

Banks can only rely on the info available to them. If applicants lie to them or falsify information, then what are they supposed to do? Neither we nor you know exactly how he was able to obtain further credit from them. Only he can tell you that.
If you were to shop him to the bank and they find that he falsified his info, he will simply face the prospect of having his account closed and a CIFAS marker applied. Is that really what you want?

I think it's quite clear that the OP is trying to provide good support and not cause problems.

Yes but the issue is, if they go in guns blazing about irresponsible lending because the son can't stop spending, then they find out he lied about income on the application, it opens a can of worms of potential fraud issues

Unless I missed it, who said anyone lied about income?

CouldntResist

Sightly facetious but if this money had instead been spent on food/rent in order to keep someone with much a reduced income alive would the bank be castigated for irresponsibly lending or lauded for being a community asset?

Nasqueron

Superhoopza said:

Nasqueron said:

prettyandfluffy said:

macman said:

Banks can only rely on the info available to them. If applicants lie to them or falsify information, then what are they supposed to do? Neither we nor you know exactly how he was able to obtain further credit from them. Only he can tell you that.
If you were to shop him to the bank and they find that he falsified his info, he will simply face the prospect of having his account closed and a CIFAS marker applied. Is that really what you want?

I think it's quite clear that the OP is trying to provide good support and not cause problems.

Yes but the issue is, if they go in guns blazing about irresponsible lending because the son can't stop spending, then they find out he lied about income on the application, it opens a can of worms of potential fraud issues

Unless I missed it, who said anyone lied about income?

As has already been mentioned in the thread (see posts 10,12 and 19). No-one has necessarily lied about income, hence the IF qualifier.

OP's son lost his job - if he a) didn't tell the bank of this change in circumstances and b) didn't tell the second bank he applied for an OD with that he had lost his job (depending on timeline) then it could be an issue with claiming irresponsible lending as OP considers it irresponsible that they didn't monitor his individual account revenue. The question remains whether the second account was opened after losing job, whether he told them of his lost job / financial hardship and what he told them on application for the OD

Hence establish facts before claiming bank is wrong as they have been the unwitting victims of a gambler desperate for money and willing to lie about things

Doobedoobedoo

Not at any point have I tried to absolve my son of blame. Nor have I tried to make the bank responsible for his actions. I posed a question: "Is this irresponsible lending?". My son is unwell in addition to being in the grips of addiction. He is making some silly blooming decisions that he is responsible for. However,  life isn't often black and white. Just because my son is responsible for decisions made, it does not mean the bank is responsibly loaning him money. The two things can both be true!

I am semi retired. I don't have a huge income. I applied for a loan recently and I had to give lots of details and evidence of mine and my husband's income. I was accepted but only with my husband being co applicant. That was responsible banking! The bank don't want to loan money to someone who is not going to pay it back! 

The bank that gave my son the OD, which is essentially a type of loan, have no evidence that he can pay it back.  Surely that does not make business sense? 

fatbelly

It's not a case of whether their behaviour made business sense. It's whether they complied with FCA requirements to monitor overdraft use, identify clients with patterns of repeat use, and take appropriate steps with changing that pattern of use.

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/5D/?view=chapter

Nasqueron

Doobedoobedoo said:

Not at any point have I tried to absolve my son of blame. Nor have I tried to make the bank responsible for his actions. I posed a question: "Is this irresponsible lending?". My son is unwell in addition to being in the grips of addiction. He is making some silly blooming decisions that he is responsible for. However,  life isn't often black and white. Just because my son is responsible for decisions made, it does not mean the bank is responsibly loaning him money. The two things can both be true!

I am semi retired. I don't have a huge income. I applied for a loan recently and I had to give lots of details and evidence of mine and my husband's income. I was accepted but only with my husband being co applicant. That was responsible banking! The bank don't want to loan money to someone who is not going to pay it back! 

The bank that gave my son the OD, which is essentially a type of loan, have no evidence that he can pay it back.  Surely that does not make business sense? 

The question isn't about business sense, it's about what he told them.

a) Did he update the bank that he lost his job?
b) Did he apply for the second account before or after losing the job and did he tell them he lost his job?
c) What income did he tell them he had when he applied?

It's not possible to say that they have no evidence he can pay it back (as you have been advised previously, they do not monitor individual accounts at transaction level) - if he told them he had loads of money coming in to service his debt and agreed to an OD extension (or even asked for one) and the bank believed it was affordable, there was no irresponsible lending. I understand gambling is a serious addiction, but I also know that desperate gamblers will lie and steal to get more money - so if your son didn't tell the bank he lost his job, or applied for another account without telling them he had lost his job, as he knew it would shut down his debt, the blame isn't on the bank

macman

OP, what resolution are you seeking on this? You have no authority to intervene on behalf of your adult son unless he grants you a POA. The bank aren't going to talk to you about it, and I doubt that your son is going to make a complaint to them himself for increasing his credit line. 
I appreciate that you want to help him, but I don't see how you can take this forward even if a case could be made?